Yipman's Lineage

[yipman_sifu]

Although I am very impressed with Wing Chun, I do not do Wing Chun, so I have never checked to deeply into this, but who was Yip Mann's teacher?

Chan Wah Shun taught Yipman the basics only. The refined Wing Chun that he learned was from Leung Bik, who taught him the soft aspects of combat fighting. Yipman was very proud to learn from Leung Bik, because after returning to Fatshan again, he saw himself much more experienced than his seniors who learned from Chan Wah Shun. Yipman had a third indirect teacher. Master Wong Shun-Leung was a student of the grandmaster, but he convinced him into changing some of the techniques in order to make them more effecient, and Yipman's Wing Chun was affected by master Wong concepts. Many of the today lineages are the results which both Yipman and Wong made, except the William Cheung and the Leung Ting's. Leung Ting Wing Chun is very modified and uses some other fighting concepts. Cheung uses his own traditional Wing chun that he learned it during a certain time when he was with Yipman.

 

[ed-swckf]

Chan Wah Shun taught Yipman the basics only. The refined Wing Chun that he learned was from Leung Bik, who taught him the soft aspects of combat fighting. Yipman was very proud to learn from Leung Bik, because after returning to Fatshan again, he saw himself much more experienced than his seniors who learned from Chan Wah Shun. Yipman had a third indirect teacher. Master Wong Shun-Leung was a student of the grandmaster, but he convinced him into changing some of the techniques in order to make them more effecient, and Yipman's Wing Chun was affected by master Wong concepts. Many of the today lineages are the results which both Yipman and Wong made, except the William Cheung and the Leung Ting's. Leung Ting Wing Chun is very modified and uses some other fighting concepts. Cheung uses his own traditional Wing chun that he learned it during a certain time when he was with Yipman.

You really like wong shun leung don't you!!! i swear nearly all your posts end up talking about him in some way. Not that thats a bad thing i just find it brings a smile to my face that you like him that much.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Chan Wah Shun taught Yipman the basics only. The refined Wing Chun that he learned was from Leung Bik, who taught him the soft aspects of combat fighting. Yipman was very proud to learn from Leung Bik, because after returning to Fatshan again, he saw himself much more experienced than his seniors who learned from Chan Wah Shun. Yipman had a third indirect teacher. Master Wong Shun-Leung was a student of the grandmaster, but he convinced him into changing some of the techniques in order to make them more effecient, and Yipman's Wing Chun was affected by master Wong concepts. Many of the today lineages are the results which both Yipman and Wong made, except the William Cheung and the Leung Ting's. Leung Ting Wing Chun is very modified and uses some other fighting concepts. Cheung uses his own traditional Wing chun that he learned it during a certain time when he was with Yipman.

Thank You

 

[bcbernam777]

Chan Wah Shun taught Yipman the basics only. The refined Wing Chun that he learned was from Leung Bik, who taught him the soft aspects of combat fighting. Yipman was very proud to learn from Leung Bik, because after returning to Fatshan again, he saw himself much more experienced than his seniors who learned from Chan Wah Shun. Yipman had a third indirect teacher. Master Wong Shun-Leung was a student of the grandmaster, but he convinced him into changing some of the techniques in order to make them more effecient, and Yipman's Wing Chun was affected by master Wong concepts. Many of the today lineages are the results which both Yipman and Wong made, except the William Cheung and the Leung Ting's. Leung Ting Wing Chun is very modified and uses some other fighting concepts. Cheung uses his own traditional Wing chun that he learned it during a certain time when he was with Yipman.

While it is true that Wong Shun Leung made some suggestions to Yip Man in terms of including the Gaan Sau in the Sui Lum Tao, which was indeed taken up by Yip this is the only change I know of that yip man took on board, but to suggest that WSL was somehow some third indirect student, is stretching things beyond the truth. True the master is always the student, but WSL did not teach Yip Man, Yip Mans only teachers of Wing Chun where chan wah shun and leung bik. Also to sggest that WSL's influence changed Yip Mans own Wing Chun and therefore the Wing chun subsequant generations learnt or too on bed is also erronious and an overstating of the reality. While it is admirable that you are passionate about WSL, you must learn to temper that passion so that yu can still see what are the facts, WSL indeed was very, very good at Wing Chun and from what I understand a good teacher, but he was not necessaraly Sigungs best student, and certainly not his most senior.

 

[yipman_sifu]

While it is true that Wong Shun Leung made some suggestions to Yip Man in terms of including the Gaan Sau in the Sui Lum Tao, which was indeed taken up by Yip this is the only change I know of that yip man took on board, but to suggest that WSL was somehow some third indirect student, is stretching things beyond the truth. True the master is always the student, but WSL did not teach Yip Man, Yip Mans only teachers of Wing Chun where chan wah shun and leung bik. Also to sggest that WSL's influence changed Yip Mans own Wing Chun and therefore the Wing chun subsequant generations learnt or too on bed is also erronious and an overstating of the reality. While it is admirable that you are passionate about WSL, you must learn to temper that passion so that yu can still see what are the facts, WSL indeed was very, very good at Wing Chun and from what I understand a good teacher, but he was not necessaraly Sigungs best student, and certainly not his most senior.

Of course not his most senior. Yipman taught several students during the stay at Fatshan his hime town, and upon coming to HK, he taught the restaurant workers before the Gongsau. and his first student as we know in the late times (When Yipman was in his 50's) was Leung Sheung. then Sifu Lok Yiu, Sifu Chu (Tsui), then comes the Gongsau Wong.
Regarding why some posters seems really amazed why I posted most of my sayings about him is that due to spiritual means the Sifu achieved in his combat training. There may be other Sifus who are great, but still I had not found a one with the same qualifications the Gongsau had. If we go to other fighting systems I really admire master Hou Yuan Jia of the MyJhong fist.

Bcbernam777, I posted you a saying about Sifu Fung Ping Boi requesting information about him (go to page 1).

ed-swckf, can you enlighten me with great Sifus you think. I personally train in the Leung Ting lineage and consider my Sifu Mannes to have an astonishing skill and power in Wing Chun. I think you train in the Yip Chun lineage, so how is master Yip Chun, I think that I saw him with Leung Ting discussing issues and giving advices to the WT master himself.

 

[Kensai]

I've heard of him and trained with some of his ex students that moved away from the area they were in.

He learnt from simon lau who was a student of lee shing. However he went on like many, to learn from yip chun and perhaps his biography gives a better insight into why:

http://www.ukwingchun.com/Master_James_Sinclair.htm

Lineage means nothing, how far up on the family tree certainly matters nothing if you have a good teacher. Unfortunately a lot of people are blinded by this and chase lineage and neagate good sifus in order to get closer to the top.

Ahaaa.... Fair enough. I had read some of the details about him, and those "Wing Chun wars", sounds slightly bizarre to me...

 

[ed-swckf]

ed-swckf, can you enlighten me with great Sifus you think. I personally train in the Leung Ting lineage and consider my Sifu Mannes to have an astonishing skill and power in Wing Chun. I think you train in the Yip Chun lineage, so how is master Yip Chun, I think that I saw him with Leung Ting discussing issues and giving advices to the WT master himself.

Well first off see my lineage, i train in yip chun and yip ching lineages although of late its leaned more towards that of yip ching. Yip chun is very good, unfortunately he retired from travelling to seminars a few years back but he still trains frequently in hong kong so to get hands on with him is still possible if you jump on a plane. He used to come to england quite a lot and has been in contact with a lot of schools here.

Yip chings style is different to yip chuns in the sense its a bit more efficiant - take that comment with a grain of salt as i am not saying yip chuns style is lacking anything its just a different approach which is hard to express literally.

Both yip chung and yip chun have some great students. Eric li and ron heimberger are students of yip ching i hope to roll with in the future. Of course on the yip chun side of things in the UK we have shaun rawcliffe, who is a great exponant of the art however there are a lot of sifus in the uk who have great skill and knowledge that you wount find on lineage trees and the like.

 

[ed-swckf]

Ahaaa.... Fair enough. I had read some of the details about him, and those "Wing Chun wars", sounds slightly bizarre to me...

Wing chun unfortunately has too many politics.

 

[Flying Crane]

Wing chun unfortunately has too many politics.

yes, and they are certainly not alone in that dubious distinction.

 

[ed-swckf]

yes, and they are certainly not alone in that dubious distinction.

I'm sure they aren't but it certainly is an unfortunate notable talking point of wing chun. I'd probably go as far as to say its the achilles heel of the art.

 

[bcbernam777]

Bcbernam777, I posted you a saying about Sifu Fung Ping Boi requesting information about him (go to page 1).

Give me something I can send a word document on

 

[barriecusvein]

Give me something I can send a word document on

www.yousendit.com

lets you send any type of file up to 1GB to any email address. they used to host the file themselves and allow anyone with the correct link to download it (links are super long and random so only people you give the link to can get the file) so you can pm someone with the link. dunno if they still do that though.

 

[Kensai]

I'm sure they aren't but it certainly is an unfortunate notable talking point of wing chun. I'd probably go as far as to say its the achilles heel of the art.

Yeah... I'd go with that too...

 

[yipman_sifu]

Give me something I can send a word document on

You can tell me about a site link to your institute.

 

[Wing Chun Dummy]

Starting to feel left out now, the master of our association is James Sinclair, take it no-one's heard of him....?? Although what his lineage is, is beyond me.

i've heard of him... i was looking for a place to train in Birmingham UK and found his website. wasn't impressive. then later some1 recommended the leading UK representative of Yip Man's elder son ... who just happens to teach in Birmingham... fantastic!

 

[Kensai]

i've heard of him... i was looking for a place to train in Birmingham UK and found his website. wasn't impressive. then later some1 recommended the leading UK representative of Yip Man's elder son ... who just happens to teach in Birmingham... fantastic!

Let me guess, Shawn Rawcliffes guys. Not sure what wasn't impressive, either the site or what you read, but I guess it's down to personal preference. At the end of the day, I'm not doing a 45+ mile round trip to train with someone, who was trained by somebody famous. I'm not overly arsed, I do find there's a lot of "oh MY Wing Chun's purer than yours" bollocks, which is the ONE thing that narks me about it. If at the end of the day, you stay alive for one more second on the street to put someone down, then vanish into the shadows, who gives a toss. It's just namedropping besides that.

 

[WingChun Lawyer]

Yip Man - Lee Shing - Austin Goh - Jurg Ziegler - Philip Andreas - Me.

That would be my Wing Chun lineage, if I still did Wing Chun. Anyone here sparred with Austin Goh or Jurg Ziegler? I never met them personally, and I would like to know if they are any good.

 

[ed-swckf]

Let me guess, Shawn Rawcliffes guys. Not sure what wasn't impressive, either the site or what you read, but I guess it's down to personal preference. At the end of the day, I'm not doing a 45+ mile round trip to train with someone, who was trained by somebody famous. I'm not overly arsed, I do find there's a lot of "oh MY Wing Chun's purer than yours" bollocks, which is the ONE thing that narks me about it. If at the end of the day, you stay alive for one more second on the street to put someone down, then vanish into the shadows, who gives a toss. It's just namedropping besides that.

Yeah i completely agree with what you have said. And the problem with this yearning to be seen as representing someone as close to yip man as possible does make for a load of ****. And whilst i have a great amount of respect for saun rawcliffes wing chun skill and knowledge he to has ignored the fact that he was taught under sam kwok for a long time before he went to learn directly from yip chun. I feel there should be some honor in staying somewhat truthful to your original sifu and at least still regarding to them as such even if you do move on to other teachers when you feel you should.

 

[Kensai]

Yeah i completely agree with what you have said. And the problem with this yearning to be seen as representing someone as close to yip man as possible does make for a load of ****. And whilst i have a great amount of respect for saun rawcliffes wing chun skill and knowledge he to has ignored the fact that he was taught under sam kwok for a long time before he went to learn directly from yip chun. I feel there should be some honor in staying somewhat truthful to your original sifu and at least still regarding to them as such even if you do move on to other teachers when you feel you should.

Bingo, I quite agree. I also have a great deal of respect, but then I would for any one who has mastered any art, the name dropping thing is just so obviously apparent though. Why do it?