At what point should you refuse or stop teaching someone martial arts?

[Flying Crane]

Some things are worth doing for their own sake. Not everything needs to be done for a profit.

Anyone who has never had something in their life about which they felt that way, well that is unfortunate.

 

[Flying Crane]

This is why we have different point of view on this. I was not taught for free when I learned from my SC teacher.

My senior SC brother David C. K. Lin used to charge $250 per hour for his private lesson.

Was anyone fool enough to pay him that?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

you have a near gurantee for the second one, you dont the first, and thats one instance anyway. If you start getting into it, you start becoming predeposed to diffrent behaviours, if you both do boxing you know generally what methodologies a boxer uses, if one does and the other doesnt, neither knows what they might do. Just note, thats not they only do one thing in response to that, but closer to a scale of things they might do and might not do. Ehat precisely they might do is (insert shurg here) kind of irrelivent to go to that much detail here.

All beginners are honest people. MA experts learn how to cheat.

If you throw a punch at a

- beginner, 99% of the time that beginner will throw a punch back at you (To prove that he can do better than you can).
- MA expert, most of the time, he will kick back at you (because his leg is longer than your arm).

So who is more predictable?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Was anyone fool enough to pay him that?

Yes! As far as I know, They met once a week for many years until David C. K. Lin passed away.

In NYC, Taiji teacher Cheng Man-Ching used to charge $4,000 to learn his Taiji form. He then charged another $4,000 to polish student's Taiji form. One of Cheng Man-Ching's students told me this.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is why we have different point of view on this. I was not taught for free when I learned from my SC teacher.

My senior SC brother David C. K. Lin used to charge $250 per hour for his private lesson.

Wow. that's a lot.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Wow. that's a lot.

When I invited my SC teacher to live in my house, I had to pay his round trip airline ticket from Taipei, Taiwan to Austin, Texas. During his staying, I took care of his room and board. Every month I had to pay him $1,800.

 

[JowGaWolf]

All beginners are honest people. MA experts learn how to cheat.

Comes with the territory.

Yes! As far as I know, They met once a week for many years until David C. K. Lin passed away.

In NYC, Taiji teacher Cheng Man-Ching used to charge $4,000 to learn his Taiji form. He then charged another $4,000 to polish student's Taiji form. One of Cheng Man-Ching's students told me this.

For that much money, I better come out as a world class Taiji fighter who can easily defeat Mike Tyson on his best day and while I'm having my worst day.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When I invited my SC teacher to live in my house, I had to pay his round trip airline ticket from Taipei, Taiwan to Austin, Texas. During his staying, I take care of his room and board. Every month I had to pay him $1,800.

yeah. that's one of the customs I won't be doing. I'm familiar with it, just not going to be doing it. It would be cheaper to be his friend. lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Imagine paying some one $4000 to learn Taji, only to have a person who trained for $60 a month to come and beat the Taji guy. At that point is anything that the Taiji guy teaches worth $4000?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here is my concern.

If the government policy is the following:

If you can release a slave, the government will reward you $1,000. A rich person releases many slaves. But he doesn't want to accept the reward. This rich guy develops good reputation. Everybody say that he is a great person. What will happen after that?

Some rich people will still release slaves and refuse to accept the reward. But for those who wants to release slaves, but also wants to accept reward, since accepting reward will give them bad reputation, this group of people may stop releasing slave. At the end, the number of people who is willing to release slave will decrease. The slave end up getting less released.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Imagine paying some one $4000 to learn Taji, only to have a person who trained for $60 a month to come and beat the Taji guy. At that point is anything that the Taiji guy teaches worth $4000?

I don't know how much Mike Tyson would charge for his boxing private lesson. Does anybody know?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some rich people will still help homeless and refuse to accept the reward. But for those who wants to help homeless, but also accept reward, since accept reward will give them bad reputation, these group of people may stop helping homeless.

There are 2 things that won't happen.
1. No one will see the rich people who take the reward as a reason to give them a bad reputation. In the U.S. this happens through tax write offs. Bill Gates doesn't it and no one thinks he has a bad reputation for giving money.

2. People like Bill Gates don't stop giving money because of #1 because it doesn't happen that way. At least in the U.S.

The real problem that you have, is creating a society where no one wants to help others unless they are getting paid. That's a bad thing for any society.

Which scenario do you prefer?
1. I see you being attacked by someone, I come to help you for free.
2. I see you being attacked by someone, I come to help you , but only if you pay me $1000

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Which scenario do you prefer?
1. I see you being attacked by someone, I come to help you for free.
2. I see you being attacked by someone, I come to help you , but only if you pay me $1000

Which scenario do you prefer?

You applied $120,000 student loan to finish your college.

1. You then work for free for the rest of your life. (How will you be able to pay back your student loan?)
2. You require reasonable salary for your work.

I will take 2 over 1.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Which scenario do you prefer?

You applied $120,000 student loan to finish your college.

1. You then work for free for the rest of your life. (How will you be able to pay back your student loan?)
2. You require reasonable salary for your work.

I will take 2 over 1.

This is a false choice because I can prefer to do both them equally. I can prefer to work for a reasonable salary that will allow me to do things for free. I'm doing that now. This is why I say it's a false choice.

The best way to do free work is to make sure that you are taken care of financially. This will allow you to better help others. Who does this? Bill Gates does this. A lot of what he's able to give to others is because of his business success. It's hard to do free work when you are broke. Been there done it. It doesn't work well.

So If I prefer to do #1 then I would still need to do #2 in order to donate my free time. How can you help others when you are homeless? First you have to get stability, which means you do #2 Then you can do #1 until your heart is content.

Here is a real world example, People who have financial stability in their lives will often volunteer (work for free) for as long as their own lives are stable. Here's an example. Guess which group is more financially stable?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Which scenario do you prefer?

You applied $120,000 student loan to finish your college.

1. You then work for free for the rest of your life. (How will you be able to pay back your student loan?)
2. You require reasonable salary for your work.

I will take 2 over 1.

I will do 2 so I can do more of #1

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I will do 2 so I can do more of #1

What if you can't do 2?

A long fist brothers of mine who lose everything in Venezuela bad economic. He went back to Taiwan at age of 83 and tried to teach CMA to make a living.

If I also go back to Taiwan, open a CMA school next to his school and teach for free, will he be able to get any students?

- Money is not everything. Without money, you can't do anything.
- The bad thing that can happen to you is when you die, you haven't spent all your money. The worse thing that can happen to you is you have spent all your money, you are not dead yet.

 

[isshinryuronin]

In NYC, Taiji teacher Cheng Man-Ching used to charge $4,000 to learn his Taiji form. He then charged another $4,000 to polish student's Taiji form

There are people who have a lot of money and will spend outrageous sums for something to impress their friends and satisfy their own ego. A celebrity chef in Las Vegas charges $49 for a hamburger. One sushi chef in Japan might charge $1000 for a dinner. Worth it? Not to me. Of course, if I was a billionaire....?

I could have 10 watches with a $49 price tag in a fashionable store in a nice area. And, on the counter next to it, 10 other watches (the same but for a different colored box and name) with a posted price of $79. Chances are I will sell out of the more expensive watches first. Perceived value.

If someone wants to throw money at me, (knowing what he's getting) who am I to say he's wrong? That capitalism.

If I also go back to Taiwan, open a CMA school next to his school and teach for free, will he be able to get any students?

A salesperson at the old guy's school would counter this with "you get what you pay for."

 

[JowGaWolf]

What if you can't do 2?

If you can't do 2 then do then find a group that offers #1 for people who are in a bad situation. If there is no group to help you then keep focusing on #2 as that is a priority. You can't help others if you can't help yourself. When you find yourself in that situation then the best thing is to find those who can help you, because now you are that person who would benefit from someone doing something for free out of the kindness of their hearts.

If you are homeless then focus on financial improvement while seeking help from groups who assist the homeless out of the kindness of their hearts.

If I also go back to Taiwan, open a CMA school next to his school and teach for free, will he be able to get any students?

At that point it doesn't matter if you teach for free or if you teach for money. At that point you become his competition. Even if you teach for money and not for free, if your school is better your long fist brother will lose money. This is how walmart put many small shops out of business.

You are missing my point with this. You don't teach everyone for free. You just teach those who are not able to afford the class and only if the person has the right passion to learn what you teach. People understand that paying helps to keep a school open. People also understand if you help someone for free. Sometimes your best student will be the one who can least afford it.

If you look at professional sports you will discover that many of the people who are the best athlete's are the ones who can least afford it. If you look at professional careers many of those who had very little or nothing are also some of the most successful people in the world. They are also the same people who give back to the communities when they are rich.

The people who most appreciate "free" and "help" are often those who need it the most. When you don't need it then it's only an option so it doesn't mean much to you. This is why you don't teach everyone for free. You just teach the ones who need it the most.

Not every great leader starts his life being great. Not every rich person starts their life being rich. The world is full of these examples.

Money is not everything. Without money, you can't do anything.

This is why I say you must help yourself before you can help others. You cannot help others cross a lake unless you have a boat. You cannot have a boat unless you have money.

If you do too many things for free, then you will have no boat. Not everyone needs nor wants free. Some people want to pay money to show appreciation. When you find people like that then allow them to pay.

Perceived value.

This is always a factor

A salesperson at the old guy's school would counter this with "you get what you pay for."

This is also true and happens often. I've even said as much myself. When doing designing websites. I warn people about "free website design" and "expensive website design".

The free website design gets the "you get what you pay for" speech
The expensive website design gets the "Perceived value" speech. Don't pay more for something that is the same thing at a lower price.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I only oppose free MA lesson.

If you have to pay to your MA teacher, but you let your students to learn from you for free, you don't treat yourself fairly.

Why doesn’t that apply to art classes, too?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

you have a near gurantee for the second one, you dont the first

You have that backwards.