At what point should you refuse or stop teaching someone martial arts?

[JowGaWolf]

Man I wish I had a teacher like that

There are probably more teacher's out there who would teach you for free than you realize. Things like that usually come about when a person has an honest passion about what he or she is training. When you find something that you enjoy doing for the sake of doing it, then people can see that passion in your eyes and they appreciate that passion. But like all good relationships it takes time to build and it's not something that can be forced.

Be honest about your passion for what you enjoy and you'll soon discover that there are many people who are willing to help you and your passion.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Wow. I’ve made so much more than you. I’ll bet I’ve made nearly $1,000 over the years.

lol yeah we are going to have to work on that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

There are probably more teacher's out there who would teach you for free than you realize.

I don't understand the logic here. Why do you want to teach for free? If you don't care about the money, you can donate your earning to Salvation Army.

It's not the money. It's the principle - There is no free lunch on this planet. Students won't appreciate your knowledge if they don't have to pay you.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't understand the logic here. Why do you want to teach for free? If you don't care about the money, you can donate your earning to Salvation Army.

It's not the money. It's the principle - There is no free lunch on this planet. Students won't appreciate your knowledge if they don't have to pay you.

Still wrong. Still happy to pass out free lunch.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Still wrong. Still happy to pass out free lunch.

For what purpose?

When you see a homeless, do you just give him food, or do you help him to find a job so he can work for his food?

One has to give before he can take. If you teach someone that he can take without giving, it's not good for him.

 

[Dirty Dog]

For what purpose?

Because I enjoy teaching.

When you see a homeless, do you just give him food, or do you help him to find a job so he can work for his food?

Depends on what's needed and wanted. It's kind of hard to get a job when you're starving.
Of course, that's completely irrelevant to the subject actually being discussed. Which is martial arts training. Which some people do for free, which you seem to think makes you look bad.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

This might be the worst logic I've seen here. "Let's teach more people to fight well because it will make them fight worse."

I wouldnt say thats the logic, the logic is if they know how, they become predictable. Plus if you are going to do it, at least do it right.

 

[Anarax]

1. If he was still teaching the girl, and found out that she was now attacking (past defending herself) the husband, would you continue to teach her? What if you learned that she was the abuser from the beginning?

If she inflicted more trauma beyond the point needed(excluding murder or near death) to neutralize the threat? Yes, after speaking with her about exercising restraint in the future in all situations and her being receptive to what I'm saying. If she was the abuser in the beginning? Absolutely not. What's more dangerous than the physical trauma she can now inflict is her lying and manipulating others to make herself appear to be the victim.

2. In the actual situation mentioned, would you teach the husband, knowing that the two were likely going to continue getting physical/violent with each other in the future, and now one of the two is trained because of you?

I would question why they are still together, nor would I train him. I would find his motives to be too suspicious.

3. What about other situations, would you teach someone that you knew gets into bar fights a lot, or is ultimately planning to get into fist fights with the training? If so, is there a line that you'd draw?

I wouldn't train anyone that I knew actively sought out conflict. I'm somewhat responsible for the effect my training has on the student and others

4. What if you have no evidence, but for whatever reason, the individual seems like a slimeball to you, and you suspect their reasons for learning martial arts are malicious? Does this change if the person in question is 13 vs. if they're in their 40s and giving you that vibe?

Training reveals a lot of one's character, or lack there of. I would give them a chance and see if my suspicions are validated by their actions.

5. What about someone who can't control themselves? I've seen teens/young adults with developmental disabilities or similar, where they get a lot of strength, and end up hurting their caretakers. There's often nothing malicious here, but impulse control issues combined with lack of comprehension about what they're doing and the impact it has. Would you teach someone like this, knowing that you could potentially be enabling them to hurt their caretakers further?

That's a sad situation for I know exactly what you speak of. Unfortunately I would have to pass on training them for the risk is too great.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I wouldnt say thats the logic, the logic is if they know how, they become predictable.

That's the logic of someone who doesn't actually train. Part of training a fighter is ensuring that they are NOT predictable. There are few things I would rather know than what my opponent is going to do next.

Plus if you are going to do it, at least do it right.

That's just plain idiotic.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't understand the logic here. Why do you want to teach for free? If you don't care about the money, you can donate your earning to Salvation Army.

It's not the money. It's the principle - There is no free lunch on this planet. Students won't appreciate your knowledge if they don't have to pay you.

Most of my students have paid. Few have paid me.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

For what purpose?

When you see a homeless, do you just give him food, or do you help him to find a job so he can work for his food?

One has to give before he can take. If you teach someone that he can take without giving, it's not good for him.

Do you oppose all free classes (like at senior centers, craft stores, etc.), or is it only MA?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I wouldnt say thats the logic, the logic is if they know how, they become predictable. Plus if you are going to do it, at least do it right.

You're using different words, but your logic is the same. And your second statement is "If they're going to abuse someone, they may as well be good at it."

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

the logic is if they know how, they become predictable.

My experience shows the other way around.

When you pull a

- beginner, he will resist. You can borrow his resistance force, change your pull into push.
- MA expert, he will borrow your pull, add his push, and take you down.

I have tested this on over a lot of beginners, 99% of them will resist my pulling and use their force to against my force.

Can someone without MA training know how to borrow force? I don't think so.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you oppose all free classes (like at senior centers, craft stores, etc.), or is it only MA?

I only oppose free MA lesson.

If you have to pay to your MA teacher, but you let your students to learn from you for free, you don't treat yourself fairly.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I only oppose free MA lesson.

If you have to pay to your MA teacher, but you let your students to learn from you for free, you don't treat yourself fairly.

So... I have the knowledge, skill, and rank. I do not need the income. But I shouldn't teach for free?
What rubbish.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't understand the logic here. Why do you want to teach for free? If you don't care about the money, you can donate your earning to Salvation Army.

It's not the money. It's the principle - There is no free lunch on this planet. Students won't appreciate your knowledge if they don't have to pay you.

I didn't say they would teach everyone for free.

I was taught for for free. I appreciated the knowledge that I learned, the school survived because of my efforts. I'm not bragging just stating the truth. Here's how the decision to teach me for free has created good things.

1. Martial arts teacher taught me for free
2. In appreciation I volunteered to help develop the school's website and to market the school.
3. When the teacher moved away to another country, the school closed.
4. I took my passion trained in the park.
5. I then found a building to train train in. I got in contact with someone online who wanted to help me
6. He gave me full run of his school (except classrooms) and I was allowed to use any resources (kitchen, projector for movie night, access to key to building, restroom, water).
7. He met me in person, checked my background, and allowed me to name my own price for renting the space.
8. Even though I wasn't the instructor, I was the point of trust for the school. I could set the days to rent the space.
9. The school become successful and continued to operate.
10. I was able to share the knowledge that I learned with students
11. I Got Screwed over and left the school
12. The head of the Jow Ga Association reached out to me and doesn't mind sharing his knowledge with me. So now I have the opportunity to learn from my teacher's teacher.
13. I still have passion for Jow Ga and embarked on a project with a couple of guys who seem to have passion for what they do.
14. Now I not only am I'm moving forward with Jow Ga, I'm also positioning my new website so the guys who I'm teaming up with will be able to benefit from the website as well.

So lets take a look at the timeline. #2-14 would have never happened if #1 didn't occur. I wouldn't have even been a member of this website if it wasn't for #1.
The opportunity to learn from the head of the Jow Ga Kung Fu Organization in Maryland wouldn't have happened if #1 didn't happen.

Teaching for free isn't always bad. Sometimes more good comes from the world when we do things out of the kindness of our heart when we recognize the passion for others.

Now I'll brag. The one student that taught for free is the only student that was able to represent the functionality of Jow Ga techniques through sparring. There would have been more who could brag of the same thing, but I got kicked out before I could get some of the students to that point. They were so close too.

If all you care about is money then you'll miss out on some really amazing people.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you have to pay to your MA teacher, but you let your students to learn from you for free, you don't treat yourself fairly.

If I'm teaching people, then it's not about me in the first place. I want my job to pay me. I want my stocks to pay me. I want that lotto ticket I bought to pay me. When I teach, the money I charge is so I can continue to build the school.

Here's a real life experience that I taught teens. Many years ago we used to wash cars for $5 at a Subway (restaurant) to raise money to support the youth club that we were a part of. The money we made was used to help pay for tickets kids who couldn't afford it to go to amusement parks in the summer.

So one day one of the kids asked why do we charge only $5 for a car wash. I told them that people appreciate quality work and hard work. When people see that a child works hard to do a good job washing their car, then they will pay more out of appreciation. So during that day, that child got to see something amazing.

We charged $5 for the car wash, but everyone who got their car washed paid more than $5 for the car wash because of the hard work and quality that the teens put into washing a car. All of our customers volunteered to pay more than $5 for the car wash. Most paid $15 -$20 even though the sign said $5. How much money did I make that day? $0.00 from the car wash. How much money did the parents pay me for that day $0.00. How much did the teens make from that day $0.00. The club made a lot of money that day. We were able to take 15 teens to an amusement park, pay for their food, and still have enough money left over to buy a PlayStation, some video games, and some extra sports equipment. We made so much money that the city tried to play hardball and say that they didn't have the money for all that stuff. We told them we didn't need their money, the club could cover it.

The only money I got from that experience was from my Job.

Had I only worried about what I was getting paid, those teens wouldn't have had the experience they had and wouldn't have learned the those life lessons. During that time I was only working part time. What did I get out of it? A small check and a lot of knowledge about community organization which I used later on to help get a place for the kung fu school to train in.

It's not bad about to care about the students you train. It's not bad to teach someone for free. You never know how what you do may impact the lives of others and how that experience may impact your life.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I was taught for for free.

This is why we have different point of view on this. I was not taught for free when I learned from my SC teacher.

My senior SC brother David C. K. Lin used to charge $250 per hour for his private lesson.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

You're using different words, but your logic is the same. And your second statement is "If they're going to abuse someone, they may as well be good at it."

Forgot the wording i used, i thought you mis interperted it, but its sound logic.(and you didnt mis interpret it) Predoposes you to a certain set of methodologies pending what you have done which can be used to advantage.

I wouldnt use abuse there either, but if you are going to do something might as well do it right.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

My experience shows the other way around.

When you pull a

- beginner, he will resist. You can borrow his resistance force, change your pull into push.
- MA expert, he will borrow your pull, add his push, and take you down.

I have tested this on over a lot of beginners, 99% of them will resist my pulling and use their force to against my force.

Can someone without MA training know how to borrow force? I don't think so.

you have a near gurantee for the second one, you dont the first, and thats one instance anyway. If you start getting into it, you start becoming predeposed to diffrent behaviours, if you both do boxing you know generally what methodologies a boxer uses, if one does and the other doesnt, neither knows what they might do. Just note, thats not they only do one thing in response to that, but closer to a scale of things they might do and might not do. Ehat precisely they might do is (insert shurg here) kind of irrelivent to go to that much detail here.