At What Age?

[Kacey]

There is no set age, every one is different and begins to do things at different ages. My youngest just turned 3 and when I am working out at home and doing push ups, she will get down next to me and do some (3-4, but correctly done) with me. Granted, she is only mimicking what I am doing, but she is doing it at age 3 and actually started doing this at about 2 ½.

It all depends on the person and the policies/rules/requirements of the art/school/instructor/association they are joining.

This all depends; it depends on if they are mature enough to understand what a black belt means, it depends on whether their instructor believes they are ready for a black belt, it depends on if the art/school/association they are in allows it and believes they are ready, etc. There are way too many variables to accurately give an answer to this question.

For the most part, I don’t believe age should have anything to do with it; it should all be based on the person’s level of understanding, their maturity and attitude.

Can they physically perform at the level of a black belt? Can they mentally perform at the level of a black belt?

In a lot of cases, age has nothing to do with this. I know several adults who will never have the level of physical and/or mental maturity that is required to hold a black belt rank but on the other hand, I know of several children that do.

If you understand what is required, have met the requirements of the art/school/instructor/association, have the right attitude, then yeah, I have no problem with it, no matter what your age is.

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/rant on

I have a serious problem when people try to restrict things based on age (don’t get me wrong, there are some exceptions to this, and certain things should be restricted.)

People put an age on things and think that when someone hits that “magic” number, they will automatically transform into a different person, someone who has the right attitude, level of maturity, education, understanding, etc., to allow them to partake in whatever that thing is. This is complete crap; just because someone has a birthday doesn’t mean they are any different then they were the day before.

The law says that one cannot purchase a handgun until they are 21, but there are many people out there that are well over the legal age to purchase a firearm, but I wouldn’t trust them with it, yet the government does because they are past that “magic” age. Think about it, if you are 20 on Monday and 21 on Tuesday, did you really change overnight to a different person just because you had a birthday? Not likely. You are still the same person, with the same beliefs and maturity level that you had the day before.

So as far as I’m concerned, age should not be the deciding factor in allowing someone to do or not do something. There are many other factors that must be considered as well.

/rant off

A great response, and your "rant" is no rant, but a meaningful and well thought-out rationale. :asian:

I would like to adda question. How many of youanswering that you disagree with a kid wearing a BB are either, under BB rank currently, or started at a later age? Or Have you been shown up by a younger student?

Not trying to start a fight, but is this affecting your answer?

Not at all. I have a student who is currently a 2nd gup, very mature, very responsible, a good teacher when working with students who are her juniors, very aware of the minor details that differentiate between "at standard" and "above standard" - in fact, she was awarded high test score at her 2nd gup testing last week - and she is much closer, mentally, to black belt than several others in the class, at the age of 13. Assuming that she continues, and remains at the same level of dedication and effort that she has shown to date, she will be ready to test for her BB in about a year. In contrast, another of my students, a 3rd gup who is 27 years old, almost didn't test because he is missing many of the very attributes that make the young lady an exemplary student.

On the other hand, I have known BBs who were unable to discuss what they had learned and were demonstrating, who could not apply any of the things they had been taught, who could not integrate information from tuls into step or free sparring, who could not teach lower ranks, etc. - some were adults, and some were kids too young to cross a parking lot unless holding the hand of an adult. In both cases (child and adult) I think that a disservice was done when those people were awarded black belts.

 

[MJS]

Well, first off, sorry for not getting back to this thread sooner. Alot of great replies and mixed opinions. For myself, I'm split as well. Let me explain.

I've taught classes of all ages for a while. I've found that there are some kids that're in the 4,5,and 6 yo range, that seem like they're naturals. They pick up on things quick. There are others that you need to spend more time with. Their attention span is very short and its difficult for them to remember something that you showed them 5 min before. There are many times when it seems that parents bring the kids to class to give them a 1/2 hr. of free time. IMHO, this is wrong.

All that being said...

I would say that the best age for someone to start would be at least around 10yrs old. I think that the older someone is, the more they may get out of it.

I think that 16 is a good age for black belt. While they're still young, they're old enough IMO to have a better understanding of the belt.

IMO, I just can't see the point in someone who is 7 or 8 wearing a BB. Do they understand what it means to wear the belt? Do they have a good understanding of the material? In cases like this, I think a Jr. BB would be good to give the child and hold off on the full BB until they're old enough. I know some people frown upon that but IMO, I'd rather see that, than a 10yo 2nd or 3rd degree.

Mike

 

[terryl965]

Mike my fellow friend I have three son's 13-10-9 and they understand more than some of my adult BB of what certain application do and what the meaning of a BB really is. I also understand that they have been brought up in a household of Martial Artist and are not the morm out there. there has to be exception to all rules. Do you not agree.

 

[kingkong89]

i think a good age to start training is as soon as possibel. if a child is able to comprehend by seeing then start teaching.

as for the honor of black bel. even if someone has been in it for 10 15 years it sould not determine whether or not they should recieve a black belt, it should be exsperience plus maturity. with a black belt comes a great deAL of responsibility.

i don't like all the young kids (7 or 8) wearing a black belt. the belt is a big honor and the title is the same. a young child i do not think s old enough to understand the significants.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I started when I was 7 and I am still at it. I do not promote anyone to full Shodan until they are 16 if they are exceptional at 15. I will consider shodan-ho at 12 but its not a shodan. I think 4 is the absolute youngest to start a child some are starting them at 3 but its to young in my opinion.

 

[tshadowchaser]

searcher
I will go off topic a little and answer you.
I am defiantly not under black belt rank and if you think a student showing me up would bother me you know little of why I teach . I want students to become better than me.
I started in a system that promoted children to black belt at very early ages and not one of them could survive a street confrontation or had any idea of what damage they could do with their kicks or why they should not kick the spine, knee, groin.
They may have been able to do the moves but they certainly had little life experience and had way more ability to smile pretty, and play games than they did how to act and conduct themselves in tense heated situations that might mean life and death. They could do pretty forms but could only give you the explanation of the moves of the form that the instructor gave them and had blind faith that what he said was true and the only possible answer. They did the required number of self-defense moves but where robotic and unimaginative in trying to figure out more than they had been shown.
They had no idea of what awareness was and where blind to what can happen out there in the world and therefore had no idea why they where doing the art other than mommy wanted them to and it was fun

 

[MJS]

Mike my fellow friend I have three son's 13-10-9 and they understand more than some of my adult BB of what certain application do and what the meaning of a BB really is. I also understand that they have been brought up in a household of Martial Artist and are not the morm out there. there has to be exception to all rules. Do you not agree.

Hey Terry! Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner. I think Sheldon made some great points in his post, that go along with the points I was trying to make. As I said, I'm sure there are many great kids, heck, I've seen some of them with my own 2 eyes. They had, IMHO, a number of things in their favor, such as a desire to take the training serious and parents that shared the same interest in seeing their child do well. These were the parents that stayed and actually watched the class, asked questions and worked with their child at home.

Asking because I honestly don't know, but are all 3 of your kids black belts? Being brought up in that MA environment is certainly a plus.

Many times the words "Belt Factory" or "McDojo" are mentioned. I'm assuming its because of the following. Lets take a 4yo. They start their training and on an average, takes them 3-4 yrs to reach black. That puts them around 7 or 8 yrs old. Another 2-3 yrs for 2nd degree which may make them 9-11yrs old. Another 2-3 for 3rd, so they'll be around 11-14. So, by the time they're approx 18-20 yrs old, they could be a 5th degree. Does this look right to someone looking in? Maybe, maybe not. Of course, the time frames are subject to change. In other words, some schools may have a 3-4 yr period in between 2nd and 3rd degree.

Enough rambling from me. Every school is different and entitled to do as they choose. I do feel that the black belt should be able to have a solid understanding of the material, be able to apply it effectively, be able to explain it, understand and be able to give breakdowns of the moves in the kata, as well as being able to teach and lead a class.

 

[terryl965]

Mike first to answer your question Yes all three hold the rank of pooms belt which is a BB under the age of 15 by the standerds the Kukkiwon set for all of us. They all was in a Dojaang from the beginning of life, as soon as they stated to walk, they stated to train. So my one that turned nine last July have been at it for seven years, he is on his quest of learning all the right reason for every move we make in the Tae Gueks and Chon-Ji poomsae's. I agree with some of the BB factories out there but my son's are at the dojaang traing everyday for at least two hours if not three. I do not try in justifing my son's all I can say is I do not promote them the test in front of two GM and three Master and they are the one that gant it if they deserve it. So even though I train them I do not promote my own including my wife.

I really hope this explains a little to some and clears up some area's for others.

 

[HKphooey]

I have read great poems written by children...

I have seen great pictures drawn by children...

I have seen children playing without regard for race or gender...

I have heard the most beautiful music performed by children...

I have never heard a child say that is not how so and so does the technique...

A fluid, open mind without prejudice, who better to learn something new.

I think it depends on the individual, young or old.

 

[IcemanSK]

I start students at age 7 simply because, by then, they are most likely to know left from right. Truthfully, it's also as young as I can comfortably relate to.

I've seen 4 year olds that I've taught a form to one time & they can repeat it. (Yes, with the power of a 4 year old). I've also had 6 year olds that would ask out loud which is their left hand.

As far as at what age BB, that too depends on many things. In a lot of ways, it's a maturity thing. Some want to say that skill level is the end all be all of rank. I don't think that's the best way to gague BB level. I've known some technically superior folks who were rude, uncaring, ugly human beings who couldn't TEACH their way out of a paper bag. I've met 40-something uncoordinated folks that understood the art & could teach it to anyone. Seeing both groups, I realized there was more to consider than pure talent.

I think the Kukkiwon idea of a Poom (or jr. BB) is a good one. Expectations of a given instructor have a lot to do with who gets a Poom BB. I inherited an 8 year old 1st Poom from another school that was given the belt because his folks' check cleared. He's not to my standard, but we're workin' on it. I have no expectations that his technique be as strong as a 15 year old BB. But I do expect good focus, & attempts to get better daily. (Which is what expect from every student & myself as well). The Poom is intentionally different for a reason. It recognizes ability, focus & discipline in a student. A properly taught & motivated child can reach that. Some adults never can.