I think students who try to tell instructors they're wrong because they saw something different in a video (rather than asking, why is it X in the video by that guy?) have issues they need to deal with.
Asking To Test
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
- Start date
JR 137
Grandmaster
I’ve seen some stupid stuff said, but that was by far the stupidest. And it wasn’t a kid. If it was a kid, he would’ve probably just laughed it off.
What would you do if you made videos, went to correct one of your students’ student during a promotional test, and the guy you’re testing and correcting tells you the guy in the video said to do it a different way? I honestly don’t know how I’d react if I didn’t see it coming.
“The guy in the video” was the head guy who was testing him and trying to correct him. The student couldn’t figure that out. The head guy just walked away shaking his head, and the test suddenly became quite a bit harder. Thankfully I wasn’t testing that day and thankfully it wasn’t one of my teacher’s guys.
I'm not sure how I'd handle that, either. It seems likely the Dunning-Kruger effect comes rolling in on folks like that, and they decide they know a lot more than they actually do.
I'm okay with students questioning, and even with them disagreeing with an assertion I make (assuming the disagreement is respectful and rational), but just telling the instructor they're wrong???
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Decorum is becoming a lost art.
JR 137
Grandmaster
This was about 15-20 years ago. Before these millennials started becoming a thing. I was in my 20s and he was older than me. The videos were on VHS, if that gives you any idea.
You can fix techniques, you can fix protocol; you fix pretty much anything. But you just can’t fix stupid.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Time and place for everything. And a way to go about it. My teacher is 7th dan. He’s been training longer than I’ve been alive, literally. There are I think a total of 8 people in our organization that are 7th and 8th dan. Being 1st kyu, I shouldn’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to being right
There’s been a few times when I thought he was wrong. I simply asked after class for clarification. It’s almost always a thing where I was right in my understanding, but not in the context he was teaching it in. Or a matter of preference instead of an outright right vs wrong. Or simply something was changed by
Another great example was I took a class at Kaicho’s dojo. My teacher goes there once a month on average (not including events or the like). During class there, I was corrected on 2 things that I’ve never been corrected on before. Simple things. Before class started I told my teacher what I was corrected on. One thing was “yeah, we need to do a better job looking for that and pointing it out” and the other was “I haven’t heard that before, but it makes sense.” If it was during class and I said “this is what he told me when I was there” it wouldn’t be a good thing. I’d probably get his thinking look and not much more. If I was really stupid and couldn’t move on, well, I don’t know.
He’s always liked me asking questions. But it’s all about the timing and delivery. If there’s one time to not correct your teacher, it’s during a test. Make the change he’s telling you to make, and if you’re positive you’re sure you’re right and he’s wrong, address it later.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Really good post.Time and place for everything. And a way to go about it. My teacher is 7th dan. He’s been training longer than I’ve been alive, literally. There are I think a total of 8 people in our organization that are 7th and 8th dan. Being 1st kyu, I shouldn’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to being right
There’s been a few times when I thought he was wrong. I simply asked after class for clarification. It’s almost always a thing where I was right in my understanding, but not in the context he was teaching it in. Or a matter of preference instead of an outright right vs wrong. Or simply something was changed by
Another great example was I took a class at Kaicho’s dojo. My teacher goes there once a month on average (not including events or the like). During class there, I was corrected on 2 things that I’ve never been corrected on before. Simple things. Before class started I told my teacher what I was corrected on. One thing was “yeah, we need to do a better job looking for that and pointing it out” and the other was “I haven’t heard that before, but it makes sense.” If it was during class and I said “this is what he told me when I was there” it wouldn’t be a good thing. I’d probably get his thinking look and not much more. If I was really stupid and couldn’t move on, well, I don’t know.
He’s always liked me asking questions. But it’s all about the timing and delivery. If there’s one time to not correct your teacher, it’s during a test. Make the change he’s telling you to make, and if you’re positive you’re sure you’re right and he’s wrong, address it later.
Headhunter
Senior Master
Well I had an instance today for asking to test. I know a tests coming up in a couple weeks. I know I was on the list to test but I'd had to miss a few weeks because of illness. Nothing much has been said about the test so I went up to the instructor before class and said hey am I good to go for the test? His answer: yep sure your on the list. Me: cool I'll pay the money at the end of the week.
Easy simple and no dramas or "disrespect"
Easy simple and no dramas or "disrespect"
Or we're just turning into crotchety old men.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
I resemble that remark. Humph
skribs
Grandmaster
I believe this is why my Master doesn't give these out much. He wants people to come to class and learn from him, instead of using resources as an opportunity to skip class because they can study at home.
We've recently added a "new" set of forms to our curriculum, which are the official forms as standardized by our organization. These are posted online, and I am finding them online so I can stay ahead of the students (since I am one of the instructors). I've treated this as a homework project. When I go to class, he checks my progress and then gives me his take on a few of the moves. I go back and watch the videos, and I'd say probably 80% of his comments line up with the videos I've seen, and maybe 20% he's telling me something different. I figure that the best course of action is to do what my Master says, and if later I go to a different school and they do it the way it is in the video, then I'll adjust.
skribs
Grandmaster
This reminds me of something that happened to me in World of Warcraft. I was real accurate on a fansite called Wowhead, where I would post all sorts of forum posts and articles. (In case you couldn't tell by my time on here, I like forums). So when the Cataclysm expansion launched, I ran some spreadsheets and used my expertise as a healer, in order to write a very well-received post about which enchants are best for healers.
Cut to a few weeks later, I'm arguing with another healer in my guild over the very same thing - which enchants are best for healers. Keep in mind that my name on the forum is my normal online name (Skribs) and my name in-game was my character name (Irezfortips). So when a third healer went to Wowhead to try and help us resolve our argument, he reads back everything I've just been saying.
Me: Did you read that on Wowhead?
Him: Yeah.
Me: By a guy named Skribs?
Him: Yeah...how'd you know that?
Me: You realize I'm Skribs, right? I wrote that.
I was literally quoted as the source material used by a third party arbitrator to settle an argument between me and someone else.
skribs
Grandmaster
The cracks and pops I hear when I'm stretching would suggest that to be the case.
But if you're stuck at a rank you want to advance past that's also a plateau.
Well calendar time alone is not sufficient to being promoted. You also have to show up and put in your time and hard work in class. But, if a student is showing up to class on a regular basis and training hard in class and if its taking the student longer than they anticipated to promote, and the student wants to promote, at that point there should be nothing wrong with the student asking or saying something about it.
Yes, just like in college when you are working on a degree you get a sheet of paper or papers that list all the classes you have to take to get your degree, up to and including the final classes needed for your degree. The same thing with rank advancement in the martial arts, a student should get that same thing telling them what they need for every rank, up to and including first dan.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
True. Done in a respectable way there is nothing wrong with talking to your instructor about it. That is still no guarantee that you automatically get to promote.
Even if you don't get to promote the important thing is to know why you're not promoting and what you need to work on so that you can promote, that's what the student should learn from the instructor by talking about it.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
There are still variables. Just like it is harder for some to do well at a written test in certain subject, the same is true in MA. It is simply harder for some. Nothing wrong with that. It is more difficult to help the struggling person navigate the difficulties and succeeded. There is a very old saying we used to use that some will not like but it applies to the situation; if it was easy they would have little girls doing it for half the money.
I suppose that's true (especially if that holds you back in the curriculum). I never felt it that way. But if a student feels stuck because they haven't tested, I think they ought to ask for help with that problem.
