Aside from Time?

[Telfer]

This is a thread about what you believe should be given up to excel at your art.

What other aspects of life must be sacrificed in the quest?

Aside from time...that is.

This idea came up after having read Musashi's last written work called
'The Way of Independance'...when I was immediately struck by its central paradox.

1. Do not turn your back on the ways of the world.

2. Do not scheme for physical pleasure.

3. Do not intend to rely on anything.

4. Consider yourself lightly, and the world deeply.

5. Do not think in acquisitive terms.

6. Do not regret things about your personal life.

7. Do no envy another's good or evil.

8. Do not lament parting on any road.

9. Do not complain or feel bitterly about yourself or others.

10. Have no heart for approaching the path of love.

11. Do not have preferences.

12. Do not harbor hope for a personal home.

13. Do not have a liking for delicious food.

14. Do not carry antiques handed down from past generations.

15. Do not fast so that it affects you physically.

16. While weapons are another matter, do not be fond of material things.

17. Do not begrudge death while on the way.

18. Do not intend on owning valuables or a fief in old age.

19. Respect the Gods and Buddhas, but do not rely on them.

20. Though you may give up your life, do not give up your honor.

21. Never depart from the Way of the Martial Arts.

Damn...did he miss anything?

So that means, no business, no politics, no religion, no romance...but these ARE the 'ways of the world' which is number one on the list???

 

[Omar B]

This is a thread about what you believe should be given up to excel at your art.
What other aspects of life must be sacrificed in the quest?

I have problems with the word "sacrifice" (to give up a greater value for a lesser one). Because I don't see what I want to do as a sacrifice. Giving your next door neighbor money to pay his bills while you are put out that's a sacrifice or to trade a basket of fresh apples for a rotten banana is. Choosing to go and do what I wish to do is not a sacrifice since it's one of my highest values. So Karate has never incurred any sort of sacrificing.

If you wish to save the last of your dignity, do not call your best actions a “sacrifice”: that term brands you as immoral. If a mother buys food for her hungry child rather than a hat for herself, it is not a sacrifice: she values the child higher than the hat; but it is a sacrifice to the kind of mother whose higher value is the hat, who would prefer her child to starve and feeds him only from a sense of duty. If a man dies fighting for his own freedom, it is not a sacrifice: he is not willing to live as a slave; but it is a sacrifice to the kind of man who’s willing. If a man refuses to sell his convictions, it is not a sacrifice, unless he is the sort of man who has no convictions. - Ayn Rand

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

It's different from person to person, I know what I have sacrificed, but I cant say I could not do what I do without those things missing.


When I got into playing Guitar at 15, I had quit any formal MA by 16.

Got into some different schools but that was always on the back burner after my band, my Woman at the time and work.

I had a handfull of years where I had no formal involvment in the martial arts and I got heavy into my then career bu then I found a Jujutsu Dojo and slowly it took over.

I went from being the Heir apparent of my father's compnay, the guy that was the first on the job, last to leave and then I'd be dealing with work stuff at night as well and I was fine with it but slowly Jujtsu became a bigger priority.

I started being addament about leaving work on time unless it was REAl important.

It also had an impact on my relationship at the time because it was a rare thing to get me to miss class and back then it wa Tues and 7:30-9:30pm and Saturday @2pm-4pm.

Everone gives up something, whether it's conscience decision or your actions and commitments make it so.

When people ask how long it takes to be a Black belt, I always say to them "What you really want to ask is what will I end up loseing to get to that point?"

 

[Telfer]

I have problems with the word "sacrifice" (to give up a greater value for a lesser one).

Ok, but to me a sacrifice is something given up...because it obscures something you value more.

 

[Omar B]

Ok, but to me a sacrifice is something given up...because it obscures something you value more.

So you restate the definition of sacrifice but say you disagree by using "but?" Odd. You say you give up something (in green) for something your value more (red) ... so it's not a sacrifice, you've chosen the higher of the two values.

Dictionary.

 

[Telfer]

You say you give up something for something your value more...so it's not a sacrifice, you've chosen the higher of the two values.

Among ancient peoples, the favour of the Gods was far more valuable than the food and wine sacrificed on the altar.

If what was sacrificed was more highly valued...it wouldnt be given up at all.

 

[Omar B]

And we are talking real life, not mysticism, ancient or neo religion or plain stupid superstition.

Winning favor of the gods, more like destroying value for a non-entity ... which is a sacrifice, since it's something of value to a zero.

 

[Telfer]

And we are talking real life...

We're talking about 'perceived' value.

 

[Sukerkin]

I think perhaps you gentlemen might be having a clash of mismatched perspectives here? Or maybe unclearly expressed ideas at least?

For me, given my view on what function my art plays in my life, I have to 'sacrifice' nothing. I'm not giving up anything with the time I spend training - they are hours I am utilising to improve myself. They are no more 'wasted' than the hours I spend studying history or learning Japanese or otherwise expending creative energy.

 

[Omar B]

Exactly. I never understood how peple can misuse the word sacrifice so much. Maybe it's all the ignorant athletes using the word sacrifice in relation to their training for a goal they wanted ... which means it was not a sacrifice but apart of the course to get to the desired goal. Just like My degrees in English and Journalism didnt make the years in school a sacrifice because it was apart of reaching the goal. If it's difficult it does nto make it a sacrifice.

 

[Telfer]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sacrifice

a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.

 

[Omar B]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sacrifice

a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.

Great, you copied from a dictionary, still the same definition, something highly valued (green) for something of greater value (red). And now you know what sacrifice means.

 

[quoll]

This is a thread about what you believe should be given up to excel at your art.

What other aspects of life must be sacrificed in the quest?

The first line is correct "what do we give up" and the second line we can ignore.

A lot of TV viewing is given up, I go to training and my kids are watching TV, in 2 or 3 hours I come home and my kids are watching TV! They think they have put that time to better use that me, I don't agree. All of us are happy.

I will take a night off and not go training if it's a family dinner / birthday / anniversary / etc something that is a planned activity with multiple people that are related to me.

Work vs training I'll change my work so I can train.

Everyone is different.

Cheers
Graeme

 

[Jade Tigress]

Folks, let's get back to the original topic of:

This is a thread about what you believe should be given up to excel at your art.

I think we all understand what the OP means by the term "sacrifice". Let's not derail the thread over semantics. Thanks.