Juany118
Senior Master
The thing is when you defined them it was rather arbitrary. You defined the terms long after you first used them based on what appears to be a confirmation bias. Such things do lack substance imo.Long fist, long arm, long bridge. That is a semantics game, not one of substance.
---I defined the terms. It certainly does have substance.
I have shown a video. How many kicks does Sifu Jerry use in the MUSU fight I have posted, kicks are part of a TCMA long game.
---So you showed a clip of a TWC fighter kicking. And you think that is an example of the entire "long range game" and an example of conducting the entire fight from long range, equivalent to what a boxer could do??? Kicking can indeed be an important element of a "long range game." But just because someone is kicking doesn't mean they have a "long range game" that goes beyond just a "long range strategy." The clips I showed of Wing Chun guys just stepping in and starting punching had kicks as well.
You have yet to show how boxing demonstrably improves in the long game of TWC.
----I proposed it as a possibility. And not even a necessity! And yet people have gotten all butt-hurt at the suggestion that there might be room for improvement in their Wing Chun!!!
You know the history of @LFJ and I, yet I can look at his video and say "that is WSLVT" in his video in terms of long game and say that the take down, while not WSLVT via PB (it's there is Gary Lam's though) is irrelevant.
----So you are so caught up in justifying your current beliefs, that you are willing to look at an MMA training video that shows both obvious grappling elements and obvious boxing elements, and then take LFJ's word that the boxing element has been part of WSLVT all along? Really?? I have to say I'm a bit disappointed you in. I thought you were more open-minded about things like this.
So we have videos already posted. You even posted a video of GM Cheung using WC against a boxer.
---Sure. And he wasn't doing much from long range!!!! And neither was the boxer at the time.
If you feel the WC you study and teach needs a gap filler that is fine, I don't study yours so I won't say you are wrong but you are saying other Lineages also need such an addition and it's seems clear what applies to one lineage doesn't apply to all.
----So now you are even picking up on LJF's derogatory term???? I've said multiple times now that some people may be perfectly happy with the long range strategy that goes along with their Wing Chun. And that's Ok! I've also said that it is not the equivalent of what other systems that were actually designed to work from long range can do. That's just common sense. So logically speaking, a Wing Chun guy can improve their abilities at long range by looking to one of those systems. You can call that "gap filling" if you want. I just call it "cross training" or "common sense" But its just amazing at the number of people that have gotten all offended by my suggestion!And yet I'm the one accused of being "ego driven"???
As for an entire fight NO FIGHT, not even boxing, is entirely from long range. As a matter of fact there are schools of Western Boxing that rely heavily on getting into what one could call trapping range, these boxers are sometimes referred to as swarmers.
That said I am now shaking my head at showing an entire fight conducted at long range. You will find no such actual fight in boxing either. They will test with jabs from long range, which a WC fighter can also do with hands (albiet shorter range) or kicks (longer range). They then flow between close range and this longer range.
I just think you are looking at the wrong problem. Is there a problem with how many schools train WC? Yes. The only train WC vs WC and this allows a myopic focus on the hands because of how drills are structured. If however you don't simply train WC and test against WC but train to actually fight with WC and test against other forms of fighting you learn to use everything from any range, to flow between them as the fight dictates.
That is simply my experience. I regularly spar with my brother in law who is a 2nd Dan in TKD. I have a long game against him. I used the close range game in the beginning because he was vulnerable to it. He has since gotten better at addressing that and I rarely get into trapping range consistently, when I do I go for takedowns/control because I know he wont let me stay there long. I still however, with my punches and kicks give at least as good as I get because I regularly train against styles other than WC precisely to avoid the pit fall that comes from how, not what, most WC practitioners train.
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