Are there things Yip Man knew but didn't teach?

[Marnetmar]

And do we have evidence pointing to this?

 

[isshinryuronin]

I would think that a master that has studied his main art for 40 or 50 years (and probably has experience in other arts as well) has a depth of knowledge that goes beyond what is taught to his students. For one thing, the master decides what to teach. He may decide not to spend time on teaching some things he has learned as he considers them less important/effective, preferring to stress other concepts/techniques. Many karate masters knew more kata than they taught. Another thing is that few students stay with their master long enough to be able learn all the system has to offer.

More important however, is that it's impossible for a master to teach all he has learned. There are things that cannot be taught - they must be learned/discovered by the student himself during his long MA journey.

 

[hunschuld]

And do we have evidence pointing to this?

Yes and yes kind of. Most early first gen direct Yip Man students are gone so all we have for proof are stories that they left behind. The only video evidence is the video of Yip Man doing the first 2 forms and the dummy. What he is doing in that video has many differences with forms performed by his early students and later ones as well.
Yip Man changed or held back things for many reasons. For example , the first person he taught the dummy to in Hong Kong,Yip Bo Ching, used a technique in a fight and seriously hurt some one. Yip Man changed the dummy form by removing that technique,. In an old Interview Hawkins Cheung talks about Yip Man teaching people different things if they were having trouble getting something. I was at a dinner where Yip Ching explained why his knife form was different than Yip Chuns same type of thing.

The only people that really got close to everything were the few private students that paid a lot or the early fighters since Yip Man reviewed fights with them and showed them different solutions when they lost or got hit. This is how the gaan sau got added to the SNT Yip Man taught. It was not in the early form he taught.

 

[jlq]

Yes and yes kind of. Most early first gen direct Yip Man students are gone so all we have for proof are stories that they left behind. The only video evidence is the video of Yip Man doing the first 2 forms and the dummy. What he is doing in that video has many differences with forms performed by his early students and later ones as well.
Yip Man changed or held back things for many reasons. For example , the first person he taught the dummy to in Hong Kong,Yip Bo Ching, used a technique in a fight and seriously hurt some one. Yip Man changed the dummy form by removing that technique,. In an old Interview Hawkins Cheung talks about Yip Man teaching people different things if they were having trouble getting something. I was at a dinner where Yip Ching explained why his knife form was different than Yip Chuns same type of thing.

The only people that really got close to everything were the few private students that paid a lot or the early fighters since Yip Man reviewed fights with them and showed them different solutions when they lost or got hit. This is how the gaan sau got added to the SNT Yip Man taught. It was not in the early form he taught.

It is an odd story, that a "Gaan Sau" had to be introduced in the pertinent section of the SNT form, for a few reasons:

1. In the version of the set Yip Man taught to his early Fatsaan students, there is already a Gaang Sau in that section. In fact, in every version of the SLT practiced by his contemporaries, this particular section is about covering high and low, and interchanging between the two.

2. Why would it be necessary to add a movement in that section, when the Gaang Sau, covering the low gate was already present in the very first motion of the form? And anyway, why would it be necessary to change the form at all? One doesn't need a form to understand the "Sei Mun" concept and have the hands to cover those gates...

 

[hunschuld]

It is an odd story, that a "Gaan Sau" had to be introduced in the pertinent section of the SNT form, for a few reasons:

1. In the version of the set Yip Man taught to his early Fatsaan students, there is already a Gaang Sau in that section. In fact, in every version of the SLT practiced by his contemporaries, this particular section is about covering high and low, and interchanging between the two.

2. Why would it be necessary to add a movement in that section, when the Gaang Sau, covering the low gate was already present in the very first motion of the form? And anyway, why would it be necessary to change the form at all? One doesn't need a form to understand the "Sei Mun" concept and have the hands to cover those gates...

The story is from Wong Sheun Leung.

All you have to do is look at the versions that Yip Man taught his early Hong Kong students and track the evolution to see he taught different things at different times. Also some people have better instincts than others some can extrapolate techniques and others need to have every step shown .

According to Jui Wan,who would have known, YMs wing chun was like everyone else's in Fatshan however when he met up with YM in Hong Kong YM was doing some different things. YM explained to Jui Wan where these things came from and Jui Wan wanted to learn them so he became a student of YM.

According to Yip Chun Yip Man was always trying to streamline and simplify so this probably was one of those things that he was trying to simplify that didn't work out

 

[Holmejr]

It’s not that they hold back, it’s that they have accumulated a depth of knowledge that only comes from their personal journey and theirs alone. In FMA we have such folks as Leo Giron, Gerardo Alcuizar, Braulio Pedoy, Angel Cabales, etc that spend a lifetime, 24 hours a day on that journey. Same art with different personalities only they could impart. I only know the CMA via Inosanto's relationship with Bruce Lee, I’m sure Yip Man had an amazing journey as well.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It was my understanding he taught his students what he felt would work for them, meaning he did not teach them all the same stuff.

 

[wckf92]

taught his early Hong Kong students

Question: what are considered "the early years"? I'm not sure how many years Yip Man actually taught.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It was my understanding he taught his students what he felt would work for them, meaning he did not teach them all the same stuff.

One of the Yip Man students told me this:

In WC, you suppose to use left Tan Shou to block a right punch. In one Hong Kong tournament, a CLF guy threw a right hook punch at a WC guy. The WC guy used left Tang Shou to block it. The CLF guy's right hook knocked through the WC guy's left Tang Shou and still knocked on the WC guy's head. After that tournament, Yip Man taught his student to use right Tang Shou to block right hook punch instead.

 

[wckf92]

One of the Yip Man students told me this:

In WC, you suppose to use left Tan Shou to block a right punch. In one Hong Kong tournament, a CLF guy threw a right hook punch at a WC guy. The WC guy used left Tang Shou to block it. The CLF guy's right hook knocked through the WC guy's left Tang Shou and still knocked on the WC guy's head. After that tournament, Yip Man taught his student to use right Tang Shou to block right hook punch instead.

Your post mentions a "right punch", but then mentions a "right hook punch"...?

In your CLF story, it could just be an example of a WC guy who was using his Tan Sau incorrectly?

 

[Callen]

One of the Yip Man students told me this:

In WC, you suppose to use left Tan Shou to block a right punch. In one Hong Kong tournament, a CLF guy threw a right hook punch at a WC guy. The WC guy used left Tang Shou to block it. The CLF guy's right hook knocked through the WC guy's left Tang Shou and still knocked on the WC guy's head. After that tournament, Yip Man taught his student to use right Tang Shou to block right hook punch instead.

Maybe, but getting to the outside of a fast round hook with taan when square facing is not the most constantly practical action. IMO it's the difference between thinking in terms of training the mechanics as opposed to going through the motions of preconceived techniques.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In your CLF story, it could just be an example of a WC guy who was using his Tan Sau incorrectly?

Tang Shou is not suitable to be used to block a hook punch. The 45 degree upward Bong Shou can be more suitable for that. I assume Yip Man taught that student if he needs to use Tang Shou to block a hook punch, he will need to use the opposite side Tang Shou with body rotation.