Are modern ninjutsu schools frauds?

[Hanzou]

Err - he’s using pain + hand trap + bridging
First thing he says is to bridge the body....

Yeah, but he has to be using pain, because that level of bridging isnt enough to get someone off of you when you're at that level of a weight disadvantage.

Compare Hatsumi's bridging to the bridging in this vid;

I also gotta say that his ground and pound defense is absolutely laughable. Please dont ever do that.

 

[dunc]

Yeah this is the point I was trying to make
The structure is there (trap, bridge etc), but his attackers’ attacks and reactions are so bad that he doesn’t need to do much

I know what you mean on the ground and pound, although I’ve found the strike he uses to be quite effective

 

[dunc]

I’d also add that out of 1,000s of hours of footage of Hatsumi sensei this is probably the only 5mins or so that you’ll see him doing ground work
So it really is a tiny part of the curriculum (other than the items mentioned before)

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, any pain compliance, IMO, should be in addition to something that works without the pain. So, if pressure on the chest is part of a movement that will work without pain, then there's no harm in adding the nipple twist, since you're not relying on it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Good example. If the pain hadn't worked, Haseman was still in a dominant position and had other options.

 

[blackknight7891]

Yeah, any pain compliance, IMO, should be in addition to something that works without the pain. So, if pressure on the chest is part of a movement that will work without pain, then there's no harm in adding the nipple twist, since you're not relying on it.

So far i don't recall having been taught any technique that required pain compliance, but "softeners" certainly helped against the larger more stubborn students, and i've learned a few new "softeners" being stubborn myself.

Would you consider them some of the "crazies"?

Unfortunately the Toshindo videos have disappeared.

So, these two videos seem to show the same technique, + their variations and that's it, I haven't actually seen this yet in the 3 schools i have seen. In x-kan going to ground just isn't advised. The styles focus is on maintaining your posture, and your balance and breaking your opponents and throwing them to the ground. the only time you then jump on them in any sense is when you already have control and you intend to pin, otherwise its a stomp to the head or ribs, just anything but going to ground. So showing two videos of the same technique doesn't really disprove the previous point that ground fighting isn't a focus and i'm not surprised theirs at least something in the the schools about escaping from this kind of position as being thrown to the ground or knocked down is likely, its just not where you want to be in this style.

 

[Hanzou]

I’d also add that out of 1,000s of hours of footage of Hatsumi sensei this is probably the only 5mins or so that you’ll see him doing ground work
So it really is a tiny part of the curriculum (other than the items mentioned before)

Yes, but those 5 minutes are filled with so much nonsense and such a general lack of technique, that it really makes me question what else he teaches.

 

[Hanzou]

So, these two videos seem to show the same technique, + their variations and that's it, I haven't actually seen this yet in the 3 schools i have seen. In x-kan going to ground just isn't advised. The styles focus is on maintaining your posture, and your balance and breaking your opponents and throwing them to the ground. the only time you then jump on them in any sense is when you already have control and you intend to pin, otherwise its a stomp to the head or ribs, just anything but going to ground. So showing two videos of the same technique doesn't really disprove the previous point that ground fighting isn't a focus and i'm not surprised theirs at least something in the the schools about escaping from this kind of position as being thrown to the ground or knocked down is likely, its just not where you want to be in this style.

Well to be fair, I never said that they focused on ground fighting, I just said that their ground fighting was very bad.

Some more (though not from Hatsumi or Hayes);

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well to be fair, I never said that they focused on ground fighting, I just said that their ground fighting was very bad.

Some more (though not from Hatsumi or Hayes);

Is that Bujinkan? The folks in black dogi look like it, but I've not seen any of them in white dogi before. I can't tell what the patches say.

 

[Hanzou]

Is that Bujinkan? The folks in black dogi look like it, but I've not seen any of them in white dogi before. I can't tell what the patches say.

It's these guys;

Shizenden Ryu Tengu Dojo

Their lineage:
Shizenden Ryu is deeply rooted in the ancient Ninjutsu schools of Japan. It was developed by Soke John Willson, who has trained for 30 years under Soke Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi (34th grandmaster, Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu). Its techniques seek to employ natural body movement and present us with a self-defense system which is universal.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Is that Bujinkan? The folks in black dogi look like it, but I've not seen any of them in white dogi before. I can't tell what the patches say.

It appears to be Shizenden Ryu, a Canadian spin-off from the Bujinkan.

 

[snake_monkey]

I just observed a Bujinkan class but the style was a bit different than a normal Bujinkan class. I can’t really describe it but I think the teacher was less focused on forms and more focused on ‘usefullness’. I personally thought it looked really cool and it seemed pretty useful.

 

[drop bear]

I just observed a Bujinkan class but the style was a bit different than a normal Bujinkan class. I can’t really describe it but I think the teacher was less focused on forms and more focused on ‘usefullness’. I personally thought it looked really cool and it seemed pretty useful.

Was it demos and stage fighting?

And I straight up love this video because it shows how many martial arts train, what the end result is and why they really shouldn't unless they want to do acting.

 

[Hakkan Mordrake]

Yes because they're teaching martial arts in the first place!!

If these schools were trying to teach real shinobi no jutsu.. nobody would show up and the schools will bring nothing in.

"Wadyamean you're not gonna be teaching me how to be a 1960's hollywood assassin?!"

"I thought you came here to learn intelligence work, persuasion and how to survive for extended periods of time in hostile territory.."

"Man, I already know intelligence. I PLAY CALL OF DUTY ALL DAY!!"