Are competitive Sport Martial Artists superior?

[Hanzou]

I wrote "defense to ground and pound in a guard"

Then enjoy this video where sport BJJ guys deal with the ground and pound from bigger and heavier attackers.

Get with it man, you're behind the curve.

 

[Acronym]

Not according this this;
Which Fighting Styles Generate the Most UFC/MMA Champions?

The pool of competitors ultimately decide which form of striking that is the most relevant. As it stands now with most people having a strong college background in wrestling, western boxing is believed to be the best striking base. Had BJJ been the most popular grappling background, then Muay Thai would have probably been rated above boxing, because the Thai clinch would have been more relevant. With wrestling nullifying Thai clinches, you are basically left with non clinch aspects of striking to pick from.

 

[Acronym]

Then enjoy this video where sport BJJ guys deal with the ground and pound from bigger and heavier attackers.

Get with it man, you're behind the curve.

You don't know what he crosstrains.

 

[Hanzou]

The pool of competitors ultimately decide which form of striking that is the most relevant. As it stands now with most people having a strong college background in wrestling, western boxing is believed to be the best striking base. Had BJJ been the most popular grappling background, then Muay Thai would have probably been rated above boxing, because the Thai clinch would have been more relevant. With wrestling nullifying Thai clinches, you are basically left with non clinch aspects of striking to pick from.

You said that BJJ was a worse base than striking arts. That chart completely contradicts what you argued.

You don't know what he crosstrains.

Who is "he"? There's three guys in that vid, and all of those guys are sport BJJ practitioners from Renzo Gracie/John Danaher. Those guys used nothing but IBJJF tactics in that vid.

 

[Acronym]

You said that BJJ was a worse base than striking arts. That chart completely contradicts what you argued.

BJJ mastery is irrelevant against a group of high level college wrestlers who won't take it to the ground, and can freely decide whether it goes to the ground or not depending on the G&P defense of the fighter.. That means the best striker wins the fight, and that means that striking is more relevant than bjj

 

[Hanzou]

BJJ mastery is irrelevant against a group of high level college wrestlers who won't take it to the ground, and can freely decide whether it goes to the ground or not depending on the G&P defense of the fighter.. That means the best striker wins the fight, and that means that striking is more relevant than bjj

So we've moved from how competition has watered down BJJ (which showed you were wrong), to BJJ being the worst base in MMA (which again showed you were wrong), to sport BJJ being ineffective against ground and pound tactics (which once again showed you were wrong). Now you want to talk about a "BJJ master" against a group of "high level college wrestlers".

When you find a topic to stick to, let me know so we can discuss it.

 

[Acronym]

So we've moved from how competition has watered down BJJ (which showed you were wrong), to BJJ being the worst base in MMA (which again showed you were wrong), to sport BJJ being ineffective against ground and pound tactics (which once again showed you were wrong). Now you want to talk about a "BJJ master" against a group of "high level college wrestlers".

When you find a topic to stick to, let me know so we can discuss it.

How do you get good at something you don't do? If the school does not train defense to G&P, and you show me someone who handles it, then he is not doing because of his training but in spite of it. Assuming he doesn't crosstrain in MMA.

 

[Hanzou]

How do you get good at something you don't do? If the school does not train defense to G&P, and you show me someone who handles it, then he is not doing because of his training but in spite of it. Assuming he doesn't crosstrain in MMA.

So you're saying that those highly trained BJJ guys didn't learn G&P defense from their obvious BJJ training? Then where did they pick it up from? What other grappling art did they learn the John Danaher leg lock system from other than 4th degree BJJ black belt John Danaher himself who teaches out of Renzo Gracie JJ in NYC?

 

[Acronym]

So you're saying that those highly trained BJJ guys didn't learn G&P defense from their obvious BJJ training? Then where did they pick it up from? What other grappling art did they learn the John Danaher leg lock system from outside from 4th degree BJJ black belt John Danaher himself who teaches out of Renzo Gracie JJ in NYC?

Your average BJJ school does not teach any striking, whether it be offensively or defensively.

And that is because they are sport oriented and the sport does not contain strikes.

 

[Hanzou]

Your average BJJ school does not teach any striking, whether it be offensively or defensively.

And that is because they are sport oriented and the sport does not contain strikes.

So now we've moved on from G&P defense to striking....

Can we please....

 

[Acronym]

So now we've moved on from G&P defense to striking....

Can we please....

That is the consequence of sport BJJ!

 

[Steve]

I guess you don't see the connection then.

LOL. Clearly not.

 

[Steve]

So if I am doing underground, NHB street fights, I can be said to do sports in my free time? You think that's an apt description of what I'm doing simply because they are organized?

Of course it's sport. It's also competitive. It's probably not legal. It might be very dangerous. But yes, an underground, NHB fight club would definitely meet the definition of both competition and sport.

 

[Steve]

Which is my point. You don't learn ground and pound in a modern day BJJ school. When you were asking about competitive sports I'm assuming you weren't referring to vale tudo?

Is vale tudo sport? Is MMA sport? Would someone who does MMA be considered by you to be a competitive sport martial artist?

You're clearly taking a principled stand of some kind, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what it is.

 

[dvcochran]

BJJ mastery is irrelevant against a group of high level college wrestlers who won't take it to the ground, and can freely decide whether it goes to the ground or not depending on the G&P defense of the fighter.. That means the best striker wins the fight, and that means that striking is more relevant than bjj

Dude, you must go to the ground in collegiate wrestling.
You have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[Acronym]

Dude, you must go to the ground in collegiate wrestling.
You have no clue what you are talking about.

They don't want to go to the ground with a Jiujitsu expert and can stall that easily..making all that groundwork the BJJ worked on irrelevant.

 

[Hanzou]

They don't want to go to the ground with a Jiujitsu expert and can stall that easily..making all that groundwork the BJJ worked on irrelevant.

Except they can't. The BJJ guy will just pull guard as soon as a wrestler shows up. Pulling Guard is the bane of any Judoka or Wrestler going up against a BJJ practitioner. We all do it against those guys because there's no point in trying to beat them at takedowns. Instead, you pull Guard--> Sweep ---> Submit.

 

[Acronym]

Except they can't. The BJJ guy will just pull guard as soon as a wrestler shows up. Pulling Guard is the bane of any Judoka or Wrestler going up against a BJJ practitioner. We all do it against those guys because there's no point in trying to beat them at takedowns. Instead, you pull Guard--> Sweep ---> Submit.

Sigh...Is that why Gordon Ryan didn't even attempt to take Josh Barnett down? Instead he turned over his a*ss and just played around. They are butt scooping wrestling noobs.

 

[Hanzou]

Sigh...Is that why Gordon Ryan didn't even attempt to take Josh Barnett down? Instead he turned over his a*ss and just played around. They are butt scooping wrestling noobs.

If Gordon Ryan is a "noob" how did he end up getting Josh Barnett in a Triangle?

 

[Acronym]

If Gordon Ryan is a "noob" how did he end up getting Josh Barnett in a Triangle?

Josh barnett took him down right before the end, which according to the posters I asked was in the rules stipulation. It looked very fishy why he did that right before it was over but they claim he had to