Applied Wing Chun is almost karate
- Thread starter TSDTexan
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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Thread title "Applied Wing Chun is almost karate"
There is nothing in the statement that says versus (vs)
meaning
1) against (especially in sports and legal use).
2) as opposed to; in contrast to.
And now back to Wing Chun
Danny T
Senior Master
Would be far more interesting if the video were not of choreographed fighting for a movie.
Making opinions of a systems ability to develop anything based upon a choreographed action is weak. Demos are simply that. Learn movements, understand what creates the movement, and what the movement can be utilized for. Practice it, ingrain it, do it slowly and smoothly, build up to doing it with speed, and do it vs someone not being compliant. You don't want to train that way or to practice that way... That is Okay! Doesn't mean the one who does is training incorrectly.
Oh and pressure testing doesn't mean 'sport' practice, ego driven, win or lose attitude. It can simply be I want to be able to perform at speed and against someone actually attacking and re-countering my counters. There are many pieces to the learning and skill development process. Practice under pressure is but one piece.
Making opinions of a systems ability to develop anything based upon a choreographed action is weak. Demos are simply that. Learn movements, understand what creates the movement, and what the movement can be utilized for. Practice it, ingrain it, do it slowly and smoothly, build up to doing it with speed, and do it vs someone not being compliant. You don't want to train that way or to practice that way... That is Okay! Doesn't mean the one who does is training incorrectly.
Oh and pressure testing doesn't mean 'sport' practice, ego driven, win or lose attitude. It can simply be I want to be able to perform at speed and against someone actually attacking and re-countering my counters. There are many pieces to the learning and skill development process. Practice under pressure is but one piece.
I guess I was of the mistaken impression that the TMA evolved during periods where they were tested hard and often. The "pressure-testing" advocates simply want to see that practice continued (in a safe and responsible way) in modern times. It seems worthwhile to me ...at least as part of the training process.
I don't know. I might be interested in some of his points ...if only I could understand him. Guess that makes me clueless. For starters, I don't know why he goes by the name Shotonoob if he's not a noob and doesn't even like Shotokan all that much.
Oh, and if he doesn't do WC, why does he get so heatedly involved in debates on this sub-forum? Of course, everybody's opinion is welcome. But if it's not your system, it's not worth getting worked up over...
And finally, all this talk about kime. That's not a term used in WC. Fa-jin maybe. But from what I gather, kime is about tensing up at impact. Something I try to avoid. Maybe style neutral terms like focus and power generation, short-power, etc. would be helpful here?
Oh yeah... one other thing. Why do you put a back-slash between lines when you skip down to make another comment?
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Yeah like that. Is it a personal typing style, a convention I'm not familiar with, or something special about your keyboard?
So, Shoto, how about a little clarification? I'd sure appreciate it.
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OP
OP
TSDTexan
Master of Arts
This is kime defined. Worth a moment of your time.I don't know. I might be interested in some of his points ...if only I could understand him. Guess that makes me clueless. For starters, I don't know why he goes by the name Shotonoob if he's not a noob and doesn't even like Shotokan all that much.
Oh, and if he doesn't do WC, why does he get so heatedly involved in debates on this sub-forum? Of course, everybody's opinion is welcome. But if it's not your system, it's not worth getting worked up over...
And finally, all this talk about kime. That's not a term used in WC. Fa-jin maybe. But from what I gather, kime is about tensing up at impact. Something I try to avoid. Maybe style neutral terms like focus and power generation, short-power, etc. would be helpful here?
Oh yeah... one other thing. Why do you put a back-slash between lines when you skip down to make another comment?
\
Yeah like that. Is it a personal typing style, a convention I'm not familiar with, or something special about your keyboard?
So, Shoto, how about a little clarification? I'd sure appreciate it.
What is Kime in Karate? | KARATE by Jesse
It is not tensing. Not at all. It is relaxing one set of muscles and / or tendons at a very precise and specific distance while fully relaxing said muscles before instantly engaging different muscle to move in a different direction.
Usually in the opposite direction.
To correctly chain punch requires kime.
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OP
OP
TSDTexan
Master of Arts
This performer uses kime... to an extreme degree.
This plays a hugh part in punching technique and wrist rotation. While WC prefers the vertical fist almost to all other, because it uses a relaxed arm and wrist... many WC teachers say karate has tensed arms and wrists.
Thus is less then accurate.
1. Not all karate punch in such a manner as this link will show.
Okinawan Shorin-Ryu Blog : Why Does The Punching Fist Rotate 180 Degrees?
Also these are kime for drillbits.
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wckf92
Master of Arts
I don't know. I might be interested in some of his points ...if only I could understand him. Guess that makes me clueless. For starters, I don't know why he goes by the name Shotonoob if he's not a noob and doesn't even like Shotokan all that much.
Oh, and if he doesn't do WC, why does he get so heatedly involved in debates on this sub-forum? Of course, everybody's opinion is welcome. But if it's not your system, it's not worth getting worked up over...
And finally, all this talk about kime. That's not a term used in WC. Fa-jin maybe. But from what I gather, kime is about tensing up at impact. Something I try to avoid. Maybe style neutral terms like focus and power generation, short-power, etc. would be helpful here?
Oh yeah... one other thing. Why do you put a back-slash between lines when you skip down to make another comment?
\
Yeah like that. Is it a personal typing style, a convention I'm not familiar with, or something special about your keyboard?
So, Shoto, how about a little clarification? I'd sure appreciate it.
\
I'm sure shoto will just say either:
1) shake it off
or
2) good luck with that
Danny T
Senior Master
Every time I am in a 'whaattt' thought. Just what does that mean.
"Shake it out, Shake it out" ???
His "/ Good luck with that" is a simple insult to whomever it is directed. He is saying you don't the intelligence or knowledge to understand or be on his level of thought.
wckf92
Master of Arts
Yep, pretty much what I was thinking too...
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
That's not what the TMA model says. So I don't know how you have come to this idea.
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No doubt TMA practitioners have ALWAYS pressure tested themselves throughout history.... if because of nothing else but human nature.
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I've always agreed in principle with your / this position. Have said so many-a-time, in numerous threads here @ MT.
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Obviously, pressure testing would be highly valuable as a huge wake-up call to those training incompetently or shallowly. RE the BAck Fist MISS YT Vid. Furthermore, what I like about the full contact environment in MMA, where a host of rules are in place to ensure some measure of safety for TMA practitioners who wish to test their skills in a full contact venue.
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Of course as you advocate, this can be experienced in the TMA school, dojo, etc.
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EDIT: Pressure testing is not a replacement nor an absolute measure of one training the whole TMA model.
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ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
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This argument have been hashed and rehashed by other posters separate from me on other threads.\
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Guess we need to sign up @ your school to get the real dope...
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I've always been in general agreement with same. Never been acknowledged here @ MT though.....
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
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Non-response.... somewhere else you'll likely / probably post that you recommend to your students to keep an open mind....
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
\I don't know. I might be interested in some of his points ...if only I could understand him. Guess that makes me clueless. For starters, I don't know why he goes by the name Shotonoob if he's not a noob and doesn't even like Shotokan all that much.
Oh, and if he doesn't do WC, why does he get so heatedly involved in debates on this sub-forum? Of course, everybody's opinion is welcome. But if it's not your system, it's not worth getting worked up over...
And finally, all this talk about kime. That's not a term used in WC. Fa-jin maybe. But from what I gather, kime is about tensing up at impact. Something I try to avoid. Maybe style neutral terms like focus and power generation, short-power, etc. would be helpful here?
Oh yeah... one other thing. Why do you put a back-slash between lines when you skip down to make another comment?
\
Yeah like that. Is it a personal typing style, a convention I'm not familiar with, or something special about your keyboard?
So, Shoto, how about a little clarification? I'd sure appreciate it.
You've got defensive written all over you post....
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
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Well tnx for acknowledging my '2-cents' worth of posts spurred "one" substantive reply on the subject.
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