Anti-Grappling Demos

[Street Brawler]

How many fights have you been in where killing a person is allowed? Even in real life that's going to get you in big trouble.

Exactly my friend:ultracool . that's why I want to make a point clear about Wing Chun. It's a self-defence that can really makes you kill someone. It's not a sport, not that fancy. and does not takes time. Most CMA are like this , this includes the self-defence Sanda which Sanshou was derived from it. Ths stuff you see Cung Le do is from a real self-defence system that were used for the Chinese army for ending fights in the fastest time .

All the best:uhyeah:

 

[Andrew Green]

no... even if you kill someone in self-defence you're likely going to find yourself in a lot of trouble.

 

[zDom]

I'd like to hear from a legal professional to confirm this, but it is my understanding that an assault by more than a single attacker is considered a lethal attack which allows for the use of deadly force.

I'm not advocating the use of deadly force, of course, and to me the true measure of self defense is the ability to defend WITHOUT resorting to lethal or crippling techniques.

On the other hand, that is one of the benefits of BJJ grappling: the ability to subdue an opponent without resorting to lethal or crippling techniques.

Scalability, IMO, is important to have in martial artist's repertoire as not every self defense situation is a life-or-death matter. Take for example a drunk, belligerent friend.

 

[Street Brawler]

no... even if you kill someone in self-defence you're likely going to find yourself in a lot of trouble.

that's out of topic pal:ultracool , but as long as you are good to people around you and fights only when needed, this is no problem, and if you killed someone for self-defence, I think the law will not find you guilty. In the streets, you need to use something deadly for a fight, and as most of the time we are not armend. Wing Chun is a very good solution for that. Once your opponent is with a gun and he is from a distance pointing at your head:shooter: . i think it's better to be a wise guy and let him take your money as long as he is keeping the distance. once he is near, you can surprise him, but be sure to be well trained for what is next, becuase you can be dead in just seconds without even hearing the gun shot in your head:shock: .

All the best pal.

 

[Street Brawler]

I'd like to hear from a legal professional to confirm this, but it is my understanding that an assault by more than a single attacker is considered a lethal attack which allows for the use of deadly force.

I'm not advocating the use of deadly force, of course, and to me the true measure of self defense is the ability to defend WITHOUT resorting to lethal or crippling techniques.

On the other hand, that is one of the benefits of BJJ grappling: the ability to subdue an opponent without resorting to lethal or crippling techniques.

Scalability, IMO, is important to have in martial artist's repertoire as not every self defense situation is a life-or-death matter. Take for example a drunk, belligerent friend.

In a real fight:mst: , you cannot even thnk to control and subdue, there is no time beleive me. you need fast solution based on your reflexes, that's something mentioned from "Blitz Defence" techniques for street encounters. If you are intersted, visit the EWTO.com to read about these stuff.

 

[Andrew Green]

Scalability, IMO, is important to have in martial artist's repertoire as not every self defense situation is a life-or-death matter. Take for example a drunk, belligerent friend.

Yup, and a often ignored aspect.

 

[zDom]

In a real fight:mst: , you cannot even thnk to control and subdue, there is no time beleive me. you need fast solution based on your reflexes, that's something mentioned from "Blitz Defence" techniques for street encounters. If you are intersted, visit the EWTO.com to read about these stuff.

Lets not veer off topic, but I've "been there, done that."

I've been in encounters that my attacker was earnest, but it was "all too easy" (like slow motion) for me. Every fight is different.

Subduing is completely do-able and appropriate at times, even in "real" fights.

 

[Si-Je]

Submission is doable, and useful if you are well trained. And BJJ is not the best art for that, believe it or not. In Ju-Jitsu that's all we trained was for submitting in class (couldn't be breaking each others arms).

But as for the street. I don't recomend it. If the attacker is someone you know, that's a different situation than an unknown person in the street. Some drunk friend is not going to take as much technique and effort to control than a skitzer freak boy that muggs you in the street for crack money. Or a rapist that wants to violate you and then kill you so you don't tell. Or some stupid gang crap, where they don't care about human life and kill just because they can. Think. Use what the situation calls for.
I'm not subduing some rapist, gang banger, drugged out punk, or mouthy street thug. I don't look for trouble, and these types of street confrontations are no game or sport. It's kill or be killed. Don't even begin to kid yourself that because your a martial artist that you should take it easy on these types of people in the street.
Whether it's self defense or not, are you going to hang around after being attacked, waste the guy, and then wait for the cops to give a statement to?! Think. No way I am! Screw that, if the person is trying to kill you and you have to kill or maim in self defense why put yourself in that situation? Especially for some unknown person who picked you as a victum?
Now, if the person knows you, it's a different situation. A friend, accquaintace, whatever knows your name, where you work/live, then you have more to deal with. I don't know about men. But women are killed, and raped 90% of the time by someone they know. So what you as a man would do with that situation is different than what I would do.
I've talked to a lawyer on this topic. And he informed me that as soon as someone even flinches at you in a hostile manner, verbally threatens you, or acts like their going to perform violence to you that is considered assault. Done. They've assaulted you and you defended yourself.
If you think about this crap while in the street you'll get yourself killed. Live to fight another day, even if that other day is a day in court.
These are all specificly different situations that you must have some idea of what you need to do to survive. What a man needs to do is different than a woman. If you know the person is a friend or co-worker, whatever then you are limited to what you can do morally and legally, if it's some crazy crackhead your options are more abundant.
My motto:
Live first, go to court later.

 

[zDom]

What a man needs to do is different than a woman.

Very true. But this is really getting into another topic -- one that I had planned to start a thread on: scalability (I'll do so sometime soon)

Look for it tonight or tomorrow and we'll delve into these issues in some detail.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled content?)

 

[Si-Je]

Most true! I was thinking that very thing too. Anti-grappling and it's coolness. lol! right-o?
back on topic.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings!

Now that we're back on topic...

Matches in China at the early 1900's the death of opponents was acceptable, and in one tournament happened very much, were several Masters were lost in the challenges... so to protect the master's lives, the tournament was stopped, which eventually lead to the rules of San Da.

Then as in any sport, the rules of engagement created parameters for optimizing the winning of the contests.

People that have developed KO power will not go for grabs.

People without KO power that want to avoid getting hit, will tactically favor grappling.

My Sifu went to Brazil in the 80's and avoided grabbing, got his hits in and won by KO. He knows his Wing Chun, yet his knowledge of the game and combat sports also contributed.

All in all, the rules are there so we can practice as hard as we can without injuring each other every day.

Simulating combat as best as possible gives better preparation for combat. Yet never confuse the simulation with the real thing.

Knowing that will put many discusions in the speculation and conjecture category, not in the proven and truth category.


Thus even Vale Tudo is a very good simulation, yet not the real thing...

the real thing has many legal costs associated with it to be tried every day...

except in some bars and environments... but that is another story!

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

 

[Ram]

Anti-grappling is nothing more than a ploy to sell stuff to artist who are too afraid to learn grappling.
You either Strike(includes blocking),take down/thorw,or grapple.
I currently train at a CMA Hopgar school. My current Sifu also fights MMA. To be a competent fighter you have to be able to do all of the listed above. That is why a lot of CMA get schooled in MMA events. They do not spend the proper amount of time training grappling.

Exactly my friend:ultracool . that's why I want to make a point clear about Wing Chun. It's a self-defence that can really makes you kill someone. It's not a sport, not that fancy. and does not takes time. Most CMA are like this , this includes the self-defence Sanda which Sanshou was derived from it. Ths stuff you see Cung Le do is from a real self-defence system that were used for the Chinese army for ending fights in the fastest time .

I love Cung Lee. Cung Le also trains in grappling.Grappling is deadly very quickly, it dose not take much pressure to go from a lock or choke to a break.

It's not a sport, not that fancy. and does not takes time. Most CMA are like this

CMA even when done right is still the king of fancy:boing2:

the real thing has many legal costs associated with it to be tried every day...

You want to see street real self defense look here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8mBe0_Ha78&mode=related&search=

Bas rocks!!!!!!!!!

 

[yipman_sifu]

CMA even when done right is still the king of fancy:boing2:

My friend. Please don't judge stuff you haven't even practise. Wing Chun is a very bad looking system in fighting. It was tested in streets and had astonishing results. I think you should read about it more before writing this.

 

[Si-Je]

I'll take anti-grappling technique over grappling any day. Done both. Grappling takes too much strength, and effort, time, and energy. Anti-grappling gets it done asap. Why choke someone out who's seriously trying to hurt you when you can break their neck in a second? or knock them out cold and end the conversation?
Submission is fun, but you try to submit a street attacker you'll get killed or seriously injured. There may be more than one, they may have buddies, it could be a ruse.
Besides, I"m personally not going to roll around on the concrete with some man between my legs playing submission footsie. I don't want a man between my legs! why do that when I can kick him in the face, neck, body, etc.
As for CMA being fancy. Sure, most seem that way, that's because there is alot of technique involved. But Wing Chun has stripped away the inessential movements (that's the whole theory behind it!) and is a really ugly art in comparison to maybe Wu Shu. lol!
But, fighting is ugly any way you do it, so it fits.

 

[Si-Je]

You want to see street real self defense look here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8mBe0_Ha78&mode=related&search=

Bas rocks!!!!!!!!![/quote]

Wow darlin'! I've never seen drunken bar brawling 101 on video before! His self defense works for him because he's tall and strong. If I tried that stuff, especially with an opponent with a knife I'd get killed. lol!
He seems like a pretty neat guy, though. He's funny.
He seems to know the sneaky feints that people use in a bar. I've seen most of those little deceptions, good to know what to look for.

Mental note about knife defenses usually taught. The knife strikes that alot of martial artist teach you to defend against are NOT how a knife fighter will come at you with a blade.
Knife fighting is about deception, flow, and re-direction. These guys won't just swipe at you like a cat, most times you won't even see the blade.
My other instructor teaches and trains Zapota and Savate dance de laroo, and he's the knife man. He's just now starting to teach me a bit. When the schools up and running I'll get to train more.

 

[zDom]

most times you won't even see the blade

Yep. If someone is really good with a knife you won't see it before you feel it.

And, from experience, if it is a puncture wound you might not even realize you've been stabbed: you can easily mistake it for a punch.

 

[Ram]

My friend. Please don't judge stuff you haven't even practise. Wing Chun is a very bad looking system in fighting. It was tested in streets and had astonishing results. I think you should read about it more before writing this.

I have two friends that do Wing chung and did a month at their gym.It has its ups and downs like anything I have seen. Compared to most grappling I have done it is very pretty.:angel:

Why choke someone out who's seriously trying to hurt you when you can break their neck in a second? or knock them out cold and end the conversation?
Submission is fun, but you try to submit a street attacker you'll get killed or seriously injured. There may be more than one, they may have buddies, it could be a ruse.

A neck crank can easily be turned into a neck break. Of course I would try not to to get knocked down in a street brawl but if I did I want to be able to handle myself. Knocking someone out who is high on PSP is very hard to do and they could probably knock you down if you have no where to run. You would not submit a street attacker you would use a arm bar to break an arm. A neck crank to snap the neck.You can use grappling to gain a position where you can get up and get away or to pummel your attacker. Of course you try not to get knocked down in a street fight because yes thier could be others, but if I did I can handle myself.

Wow darlin'! I've never seen drunken bar brawling 101 on video before!

LoL:ultracool

Knife fighting is about deception, flow, and re-direction. These guys won't just swipe at you like a cat, most times you won't even see the blade.

I remember someone telling me that the best place to look to study knife attacks is a prison. Very fast very deadly. Prison knife and shank work is almost a new martial art.

 

[Ram]

Grappling takes too much strength, and effort, time, and energy.

Depends on the moves some take almost no energy and allow a smaller weaker person to face a much larger and stronger opponent.

 

[TCBA_JOE]

Grappling takes too much strength, and effort, time, and energy.

Actually the point of BJJ is not using strenght. As for effort, time, and energy... doesn't anything that is worthwhile? Also, all martial arts take effort, time, and energy.

 

[Street Brawler]

:ultracool BJJ and submission does fit the streets, The only people who will say this will be the disciples of this art. Can anyone tell me here how many times BJJ were used out of a ring?. Even if you are skilled, you cannot use it against many fighters . Whenever people watches Anti-grappling and they are training BJJ. they would say: oh, they don't grapple for real. Hey guys . Have you ever saw any grappler in the UFC, have you seen how they grapple. they are completely exposed to being hit in their neck, but they know that rules will not permit their opponents to do this since it's prohibited. In a real fight, a grappler does not stand a chance most of the time against any striker with good attacks. We personally have in the EWTO instructors with Jujitsu and grappling background, and most were not trainers of the arts, they were instructors. they say that these arts are good to a certain degree to learn, but once to consider it everything, it starts to make no sence . Royce Gracie himself crossed-train in MMA after realizing that grappling is not everything about fighting. you must be a well rounded fighter for all situations. I hope this makes the point clear.