Anybody ever really spar on a table?

[yak sao]

I was considering putting the beams over a vat of acid or placing pointed stakes under it, but I don't have enough students as it is.
Plus, acid is expensive.

 

[mook jong man]

Depends on how you step back doesn't it.
In chi sau ,if the guy rushes forward I can take a step straight back to absorb that force , but I haven't really gained any advantage have I ?

I can attempt to pivot , but if there is quite a disparity in size then I will probably be still be rocked out of my stance and end up in a bad position.

The third option is what I do , I step back with one leg and pivot at the same time.
My stance remains stable and I end up having him at a centerline disadvantage.

Of course we should all strive and practice to be able to pivot on the spot and turn away any amount of force , but until you reach that level of skill , then pivoting back with one leg will get you out of trouble.

 

[yak sao]

Early on in people's training, when they step back, they are doing just that...stepping back as opposed to yielding to the force of the attack, which only feeds the fire of the attacker by giving him space.
If they learn how to pivot and dissolve an attack by yielding to it, then if they are overwhelmed by their opponent's force, or caught off guard, then their step back will be yielding back, which still keeps them in close proximity to their attacker, as the opponent's attack is supplying the force of how much to step.
An active step back simply gives the attacker more space to do what he wants to do.

 

[geezer]

Early on in people's training, when they step back, they are doing just that...stepping back as opposed to yielding to the force of the attack, which only feeds the fire of the attacker by giving him space.
If they learn how to pivot and dissolve an attack by yielding to it, then if they are overwhelmed by their opponent's force, or caught off guard, then their step back will be yielding back, which still keeps them in close proximity to their attacker, as the opponent's attack is supplying the force of how much to step.
An active step back simply gives the attacker more space to do what he wants to do.

So dissolve force by turning and if necessary ride the force back while always maintaining forward intent (spring).

Of course if you are tuning/pivoting ....moving "back" is actually moving diagonally or even laterally to your attacker's energy, so in fact you are side-stepping or "off-lining" and getting an angle on your opponent. And that's very useful.

In our VT we call that "crab-step".

 

[yak sao]

So dissolve force by turning and if necessary ride the force back while always maintaining forward intent (spring).

Of course if you are tuning/pivoting ....moving "back" is actually moving diagonally or even laterally to your attacker's energy, so in fact you are side-stepping or "off-lining" and getting an angle on your opponent. And that's very useful.

In our VT we call that "crab-step".

Ditto.

Well said as always

 

[fighterman]

keep thinking of Donnie Yen everytime i see the title of this thread

 

[WingChun]

Just Chi Sao.

 

[Argus]

Just Chi Sao.

Chi-Sao is great, and one of our most important training exercises, but I don't think it alone is the answer to everything.

I think the biggest challenge for most Wing Chun practitioners is what to do out of contact. A lot of us just simply don't know how to get into proper range and stay there, because we've never practiced it. So we hesitantly lurk around in boxing range and get eaten alive.

That's my very limited experience, anyway. I thought geezer's idea was quite good for training - it would force participants to get comfortable fighting in close, and not dance around out of contact playing the distance game.

 

[jeff_hasbrouck]

---

Guys, take a look at the following. It's an idea I posted on another forum, but I'd be interested in the responses of folks over here.

We've all heard about old school bouts in Hong Kong and on the mainland fought on top of tables. And of course there is the cool, if unrealistic, table top fight scene in the movie Ip Man II. Or the one in Prodigal Son. My old sifu spoke of training chi-sau that way, and from time to time we've all seen demos like that -- using strong square tables something like heavy-duty card tables, ....not tippy, round restaurant tables like in the IP Man movie, of course. Well, reading the following bit on another forum got me wondering, "Why don't we set up actual competitions based on this?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean66
Sifu WKL: Some parts of the Wing Chun style are very useful, while others are not ideally suited to certain situations. All styles have their benefits and disadvantage. Say, Wing Chun can be used with great effect when you only have small space or fight at close range. Like the predecessors, when they exchanged skills it was on a very small platform. So back then you could not step too much backwards, so the platform made you have to keep a close distance.

Personally, I'd really like to see competitons set up like this. Set up a small, low platform about 5 ft. by 5 ft., or even a bit bigger, say 2 meters on a side, and have opponents start from opposite corners. You could use kicking, punching, elbows, knees, throws, or grappling, but if you go over the side, you lose points. If both competitors go over, you'd reset on top. It could be done safely using low platforms ...perhaps raised 18 inches or 50 cm off a floor padded with mats. Having such a small floor-space with no ropes or netting to lean on would definitely change the fighting dynamics. It would be challenging and dramatic, and it would showcase the type of close fighting situation WC evolved to fight.

Has anybody actually promoted open competitions anything like this? I'm thinking WC might earn some real respect if they did. Any thoughts?

Hey geezer I like putting people in corners sometimes during training to make them get used to feeling all situations and comfortable with themselves and their techniques in close quarters. You can see a difference when they move; they are more aware that they can't run away.. Like Sun Tzu said "Place your troops where they cannot retreat". That way they will fight harder and with more heart. If you can distill that fighting spirit into each student whether in a corner or not, you can really help them become a more level headed martial artist.

On the topic of promoting the open fighting like that. I would suggest using plexiglass barriers. Without actual walls, you will find you can not simulate that type of fighting. If people have the distance to move out of the designated area; they will. Just imagine those big open mats you see all the time at karate tournaments... those are at least 10'. And they run out of those all the time. So personally I think that if you would see many of the contestants running out of bounds; reguardless of point deduction.

Anyways Geezer; I would love to see a contest set up in this manner. It would be very insightful into all the branches of WC/WT to see exactly how that particular student follows the Wing Tsun theory.

Anyways sir,

All the best.

 

[Domino]

Have trained in specific small areas and not to leave, fight in phonebox / tight spaces, also doesn't have to be tables and don't try to break it in half please.