Another black eye for Taekwondo

[Tez3]

Someone who kicked a ref would not be welcome in MMA that's for sure. ( I'm ignoring the 'even in MMA' remark)
The WTF should not be looking to find ways to make TKD more popular it should be looking for ways to make the competitions faithful to the art. Trying to make it popular is whats caused the problems in the first place.
I've just come of an MMA forum where you may be surprised to know, well some, will others won't, that there is widesperead condemnation for the Cuban, however many picked up the fact that for someone who'd foot was supposed to be injured he was kicking well and he didn't limp away afterwards! The fact that they fight with guard down was mentioned a lot too but then they only said what a lot of us were saying. A couple suggested that with kicks as good as those in the competitions they should go on into Muay Thai. Not such a frivolous suggestiion actually if you think about it, not going into MT but bringing back 'proper' fights so that TKD is a ferocious sport to watch. Allow all strikes to be scored.

 

[Windsinger]

( I'm ignoring the 'even in MMA' remark)

I said that because I know a lot of people view mixed martial artists as undisciplined thugs who just like to fight, which is far from the truth. No offense intended.

 

[Kwanjang]

Well...Thats ah, not good! I will have to use this unfortunate demostration of poor sportsmanhip. Iceman, respectfully, I don't think it's a black eye for our art/sport. It just shows this guy is not a great sport. He takes it to the next level...truly sad for him :barf:

 

[Laurentkd]

I think this is definitely a black eye for "our" sport and for one reason... I did not have a single friend or family mention say anything to me when three of our four athletes medaled. But I had multiple people ask me about or even tease me about this fight. And the saddest part is, it was the only TKD coverage that got any media attention.

Do I wanna know about this one? What happened with Marl Lopez & Moreno?

I am curious also. I hate to admit it (because frankly I think it is really sad) but even I was pretty bored watching the online broadcast of the TKD competition and I have yet to watch any of Mark's fights.

 

[igillman]

Laurentkd - I got bored watching the fights online too. Every fight seemed to be the same, bouncing like Tigger, kicking once or twice and then either jumping apart or hugging each other. It did not make a very good spectator sport.

Unless they change the judging system there are always going to be calls of unfair judging. Fencing did it by moving to an electronic scoring system and other sports have done it by having multiple judges and the lowest and highest scores removed. No system is perfect but there are much better systems in use than the one used by TKD.

Looking on the bright side, considering the number of matches that they had there were very few issues.

 

[Twin Fist]

Well, since i dont claim that WTF olympic garbage as real TKD, the TKD i teach, this incident doesnt bother me on a personal level.

Truth be told it makes me laugh a little.

But it does bother me as a martial artist.

Terry,
You dont teach your kids to be like that idiot, so dont be ashamed.

 

[YoungMan]

Mark Lopez states that he was told by both the Chairman and President of the WTF to not file any protests as this would disrupt the facade of harmony in Olympic Taekwondo. He was then penalized for using a cut kick. He also stated that if things continued, maybe it would be better if Taekwondo weren't in the 2012 Olympics.

 

[terryl965]

That was Steven amd not Mark and also Moreno making those claims on Yahoo sport two days ago. Steven also said that is it was not for the Lopezs this sport would be nothing and do they the Olympic commtee do not know how much wieght the Lopezs carry. All I know is my inside sources are saying it is over after 2012 and that nothing will change that. Too bad for all those young athletes that have devoted a couple of year perfecting the game. By the way everybody knows this was my 14 dream to make it to the Olympic after hearing and reading what has gone on he does not won't anything to do with it anymore. This is a sad day.

 

[terryl965]

Well, since i dont claim that WTF olympic garbage as real TKD, the TKD i teach, this incident doesnt bother me on a personal level.

Truth be told it makes me laugh a little.

But it does bother me as a martial artist.

Terry,
You dont teach your kids to be like that idiot, so dont be ashamed.

You are right but people presive what they do not know and if I say I teach TKD and they have seen or heard this it does reflect on me and my school. We need to make changes and get back to what is true about the Art.

 

[granfire]

That was Steven amd not Mark and also Moreno making those claims on Yahoo sport two days ago. Steven also said that is it was not for the Lopezs this sport would be nothing and do they the Olympic commtee do not know how much wieght the Lopezs carry. All I know is my inside sources are saying it is over after 2012 and that nothing will change that. Too bad for all those young athletes that have devoted a couple of year perfecting the game. By the way everybody knows this was my 14 dream to make it to the Olympic after hearing and reading what has gone on he does not won't anything to do with it anymore. This is a sad day.

Olympic dream? Considering how little that style of TKD has to do with what the rest of us are doing...so be it. not a bad choice. I think it was a favor to Korea in 88 when they introduced it. I bet the IOC had no idea what can of worms they opened with it.

Too bad unless you go by irrefutable data - like KOs, there is always room for error in judging. Fencing might have the electronic devices to indicate hits to legal and illegal target, but there are still the rules of engagement that can break a tie, and if the judge does not see it right - most competitions do not have the instant replay.

But that is only one point.

The main point has nothing to do with TKD. A sore loser acting like a brat (best case) or like a thug....actuality. Obviously the rules are just a suggestion to some people...and it does ot matter what sport they play or other activity they choose.

 

[mango.man]

That was Steven amd not Mark and also Moreno making those claims on Yahoo sport two days ago. Steven also said that is it was not for the Lopezs this sport would be nothing and do they the Olympic commtee do not know how much wieght the Lopezs carry. All I know is my inside sources are saying it is over after 2012 and that nothing will change that. Too bad for all those young athletes that have devoted a couple of year perfecting the game. By the way everybody knows this was my 14 dream to make it to the Olympic after hearing and reading what has gone on he does not won't anything to do with it anymore. This is a sad day.

Actually it was Herb Perez that made "those claims". And the USAT has thown him under the bus: "NOTE: The views expressed by the U.S. Olympic Head of Team for Taekwondo, as published in some news articles regarding the Olympic taekwondo competition, do not necessarily reflect the views of USA Taekwondo. USAT continues to work with the World Taekwondo Federation to ensure a level playing field for all athletes. "

Herb Perez is an a$$. But what does he care? He already has his Olympic Gold. For years, Steven Lopez has had calls go his way. After all this time, a call goes against him. Now he thinks that TKD should be removed from the Olympics. What does he care? He has his 2 golds, 1 bronze and his brother and sister have a silver and bronze. Throw the sport out. The Lopezs don't care. They have a ton of Olympic hardware. As far as they are concerned there is no need for Olympic competition any longer.

 

[terryl965]

Olympic dream? Considering how little that style of TKD has to do with what the rest of us are doing...so be it. not a bad choice. I think it was a favor to Korea in 88 when they introduced it. I bet the IOC had no idea what can of worms they opened with it.

Too bad unless you go by irrefutable data - like KOs, there is always room for error in judging. Fencing might have the electronic devices to indicate hits to legal and illegal target, but there are still the rules of engagement that can break a tie, and if the judge does not see it right - most competitions do not have the instant replay.

But that is only one point.

The main point has nothing to do with TKD. A sore loser acting like a brat (best case) or like a thug....actuality. Obviously the rules are just a suggestion to some people...and it does ot matter what sport they play or other activity they choose.

Look I am not saying anything bad here it is just some of our young athletes have put alot of time in for the way it look like nothing. I agree sport TKD is not what I was tought but for some teenager looking for a way to compete this was it, maybe I should have done swimming or Gymnastics.

 

[terryl965]

Actually it was Herb Perez that made "those claims". And the USAT has thown him under the bus: "NOTE: The views expressed by the U.S. Olympic Head of Team for Taekwondo, as published in some news articles regarding the Olympic taekwondo competition, do not necessarily reflect the views of USA Taekwondo. USAT continues to work with the World Taekwondo Federation to ensure a level playing field for all athletes. "

Herb Perez is an a$$. But what does he care? He already has his Olympic Gold. For years, Steven Lopez has had calls go his way. After all this time, a call goes against him. Now he thinks that TKD should be removed from the Olympics. What does he care? He has his 2 golds, 1 bronze and his brother and sister have a silver and bronze. Throw the sport out. The Lopezs don't care. They have a ton of Olympic hardware. As far as they are concerned there is no need for Olympic competition any longer.

I agree but if this is what is comming from our best than why would the IOC care one way if it stays, to bad for the so called sportmanship we pearch about.

 

[Rich Parsons]

clearly a threatening pose....

wowser....he needs to go into boxing, I am sure Mike Tyson can chew his ear off....

From the video I saw it was a strike. How much of it did he pull? I am not sure, but it was a strike with a verbal component.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Someone who kicked a ref would not be welcome in MMA that's for sure. ( I'm ignoring the 'even in MMA' remark)
The WTF should not be looking to find ways to make TKD more popular it should be looking for ways to make the competitions faithful to the art. Trying to make it popular is whats caused the problems in the first place.
I've just come of an MMA forum where you may be surprised to know, well some, will others won't, that there is widesperead condemnation for the Cuban, however many picked up the fact that for someone who'd foot was supposed to be injured he was kicking well and he didn't limp away afterwards! The fact that they fight with guard down was mentioned a lot too but then they only said what a lot of us were saying. A couple suggested that with kicks as good as those in the competitions they should go on into Muay Thai. Not such a frivolous suggestiion actually if you think about it, not going into MT but bringing back 'proper' fights so that TKD is a ferocious sport to watch. Allow all strikes to be scored.

Yes, the same foot that was making him cry out in pain. The same one that was getting attention on, while the judge was calling out time warnings to him and even gave a count down. This is the same foot he did not limp on after getting up from the DQ and ended up kicking the ref with.

I saw this as well.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Personally I think the guys and his coach should be fined. Not only banned but fined. Also if there are charges for for assault, press them as well. A clear message needs to be sent. That these actions are not tolerated.

 

[terryl965]

This sums it up. Thanks Herb.

I am sick to my stomach. This is a disgrace. They obviously could care less about the sport. What is Herb Perez doing calling for TKD to be removed from the Olympics. These people have got their medals and competed in their Olympics and now they choose to ruin it for the entire sport.


When (poor judging) happens to you, you’re told to shut up and not say anything because of what will happen to you, or what will happen to the sport,” Perez said. “If this is truly what taekwondo is about, maybe taekwondo shouldn’t be in the Olympics. Maybe they should fix it.”

Wow, keep your opinions about TKD in the Olympics to yourself!!!!!
What about the other athletes that are training in this sport!!!!

 

[Tez3]

Well bad judging happened to the British team twice, the second time they said enough is enough, put a protest in and it was upheld with the Chinese team being very sportsmanlike and agreeing with them. Though it was hard to disagree that it was a true shot as the Chinese girl had a cut lip plus photographic and video evidence showed the extent of the kick.
Yes, it was bad judging maybe biased or maybe incompetent BUT by investigating and reversing the decision, the sport came out of it well. It showed that while mistakes will always happen the sports officials can be open, put their hands up to acknowledge the problem then rectify it. No one can ask more than that. If the American team had problems they should have put in a protest, they did in other events like the 100m, it may have been upheld or not but that openess that's vital to present a sport in a good light would have been there.
Incidentally mis-scoring happened in the boxing too, several boxers fighting Chinese boxers weren't marked fairly. The Irish team got a silver when in fact their fighter had scored enough to get the gold. I've heard too it happened in other sports where marking by judges is used.
As we say in MMA though the best way to make sure you don't get a judges decision is a KO! You can go for that in boxing but can you in TKD?

 

[Twin Fist]

Terry,
do what I do, tell people you teach AMERICAN TKD. Seperate yourself from the WTF garbage and do it NOW. The olympic style is a dead dog anyway, we all know it. Once it i out of the olympics, it is gonna die off anyway.

Truth be told, the more you link yourself to the hands down, no self defense, no punching WTF style, the more you hurt your credibility as an instructor.

I know you think it might cost you potential students, but think of the potential students you can gain by concentrating on the REAL TKD

lose the chest protectors and start going to the open tourny's

As long as you have tourny's to take the kids to, they wont care if it is an AOK tourny of a wtf style.

You want to get back to the real art?

lose the WTF and tell the KKW to kiss your butt.

You are right but people presive what they do not know and if I say I teach TKD and they have seen or heard this it does reflect on me and my school. We need to make changes and get back to what is true about the Art.

 

[Windsinger]

Well bad judging happened to the British team twice, the second time they said enough is enough, put a protest in and it was upheld with the Chinese team being very sportsmanlike and agreeing with them.

Now, if only that had happened with Canadian Ivett Gonda. Yeah, I admit, I'm a little biased because she's not only Canadian, but a BC girl. But she still should have gotten at least a couple of points.