There is a difference between mocking someone and stating an estimation of the quality of their training.
An incorrect PC way of saying it.
An interesting realistic read about M.A.
- Thread starter Hyoho
- Start date
There is a difference between mocking someone and stating an estimation of the quality of their training.
An incorrect PC way of saying it.
For team competition yes, but just regular class/seminar, which is what the video was, then nope.
CB Jones
Senior Master
I said nothing about sport.
Viewers could be anyone from instructors to other students observing during the class or demo.
jobo
Grandmaster
well that amount of coordination deficit, would lead a chartable person ( ie me) to conclude they have some issues. For you its seems it just an opportunity to feel superior to those less able .
what do you mean,supposed to, wheteis the rule your quoting
CB Jones
Senior Master
It's better in class as well. In all that chaos it would be easy to miss a student performing the techniques wrong.
If you stay in sync it is easier for the instructor, other students, or even yourself to spot the difference in your technique and the others and correct a potential bad habit before it is ingrained into muscle memory.
It would be easy yes, but it's not a rule. Well it wasn't when I did karate, but this is TKD, maybe that's different?
Nope. My standard is effectiveness. That's the part you haven't gotten. If someone can't do a specific technique, that's part of the normal measurement, but it's not the actual standard. The technique isn't the point.
CB Jones
Senior Master
Sure but surely you will agree that that chaos was painful to watch.
I don't use them, so I can't speak to what they're useful for. But a demo is not about saving time, so when a demo is done, the idea of saving time seems irrelevant. A demo is about sales, so anything done in it should be designed to help illustrate some desirable feature or benefit to the appropriate audience. A bunch of people doing kata out of sync doesn't do that, in any way I can figure.
No, he has made his point fairly clearly (and I'm not one to find myself agreeing so completely with Hanzou very often).
LOL, oh absolutely yes!
Hanzou
Grandmaster
The expectation is there for classes, seminars and demonstrations as well. In fact, that expectation is there any time you're performing kata, especially as an advanced practitioner.
I mean seriously, if you were an instructor and had your BLACK BELTS demonstrating a kata, you would be okay with your students performing in a chaotic, unfocused manner?
I mostly agree with this. I don't do real group kata work (never more than 2 or 3 at once, and they might not even be doing the same kata), but if I was, I'd want them to all do the same kata at the same pace. I could see some use in having them purposely not do them in sync (having them focus during chaos), but that's not something I'd use it for often. To be able to give the best feedback, and to force them out of their own natural rhythms, I'd have them work in sync.
Hanzou
Grandmaster
Well keep in mind, the REASON they're not in synch is because the majority of them are going way too fast and doing the techniques improperly. Again, if you're just starting out and learning kata, no problem. However, when you're a black belt, and possibly instructor grade, that level of technical ineptitude is inexcusable.
Chaotic and unfocused no, but that doesn't mean I'd expect them to be synchronised either.
Hanzou
Grandmaster
They're not in synch because they're not doing the techniques properly. If you do the techniques properly, and at the correct speed, you will all be pretty much in synch with one another. Hell, some gave up doing the techniques midway through, showing a severe lack of discipline and quality control.
Further if you look at them sparring, their lack of technique spills over into that arena as well.
BTW, those faults lay squarely on the instructor's shoulders.
I agree entirely with that, Hanzou. If they were all doing kata quite well, but out of sync, I'd have little to complain about since it's (probably) not a demo and I'm not the instructor. But they're not doing them well, and the being out of sync is just one symptom.
Yeah, if they were just all being evaluated, and the instructor doesn't mind the chaos (again, chaos can be a useful tool), then the lack of synchronicity isn't a problem, in and of itself. Of course, if they were all good at the kata and doing them within their skill and abilities, they'd likely fall into some synchronicity all by themselves. I see this happen a lot with any kind of "line drill" - many students will fall into sync with the folks around them, as far as pacing and timing.
I would expect advanced students to be "pretty much" in synch yes. But we weren't talking about "pretty much" in synch.
Hanzou
Grandmaster
We have no evidence that anyone in that video were mentally handicapped, or otherwise disabled in any fashion.
Further, its not a matter of feeling superior, it's a matter of not wanting to see the martial arts devolve into a watered down mass of garbage with little value outside of a brain-dead physical activity. I'm of the belief that everyone doesn't deserve a black belt. Everyone doesn't get to reach an advanced ranking. Sometimes you have to fail in order to show your true character. Handing out belts like candy to everyone that walks through the doors devalues what a black belt symbolizes.
Compare a karate or TKD black belt to a Bjj black belt. There's a reason people automatically take the Bjj black belt more seriously than the TKD or Karate black belt. Bjj has a tradition or making obtaining the black belt a difficult process. TKD and Karate? Not so much.
Those videos highlight why that is the case. You put those poor souls in your typical Bjj school with their skillset and they'll get eaten alive, even against beginner Bjj practitioners.
