An instructor who has never fought?

[searcher]

In today's society getting in a fight may result in more than just throwing down on someone. I don't have a problem with training with an instructor that has not been in a street fight. IMO, it means they are better at avoidance than I am. Getting in a fight on the street, does not equate to being a good instructor or even a good fighter. If the guy/gal has great skills and they teach/transmit those skills to the students, they are good enough for me.

It does not matter as much if they have fought/defended themselves successfully, as it does how well their students defend themselves.

 

[blindsage]

It's also important to acknowledge that the inverse isn't necessarily true either. Just because somebody has 'street' experience, even if it's verifiable, doesn't necessarily mean that what they actually teach you is worth a damn. There's a (former) Kyokushin Karate instructor I know of who was an extremely successful full-contact tournament champion when he was younger. Now he uses his background (and marketing skills) to run a successful chain of schools that most of us would consider McDojos (the current incarnation is kickboxing and MMA). Anybody on the east coast heard of Tiger Schulmann? Exactly. You don't necessarily get what you think you're paying for.

 

[Blade96]

i dont believe an instructor needs to have actually been in a brawl on the street to be a good ma or a good teacher.

I had to fight twice in my life. once to defend myself against a bully on the school bus, and once at university around 2001 where a guy grabbed me in a room with just 2 of us (and he was like 7 feet tall to my five foot 2) and he picked me up off the ground and he sexually assaulted me but I smashed him in the head and got away.

 

[David43515]

Since so many OB/GYNs are men.....I`m guessing they`ve never given birth themselves. And yet pregnant women still flock to them and seek thier advice and help.

I`ve had teachers that fought for real, and those that never fought outside the dojo. Both taught me alot that I`ve used to either win fights, avoid fights, or nip them in the bud before they could become bigger fights.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I certainly dont think a history of 'street fights' is necessary to be a good instructor. My instructor has only ever been in one fight and yet I would not advise anyone mess with him.

 

[SensibleManiac]

I am an awesome shot. Pistol, rifle, or shotgun, I hit the bulls eye every time. I have, however, never shot a deer, a bear or a man, does that mean I can't teach marksmanship?

No, but consequently being a good shot doesn't mean you can teach marksmanship either.
Being able to teach others to shoot well is.
Your being able to do it is an obvious plus but if you want to teach, the most important part is being able to teach, not do.

 

[James Kovacich]

I think the real life experience does play a part. I mean, you can listen to the keyboard warriors, who spend more time 'thinking' they know stuff, and you can listen to guys who've put their stuff to the test. Now, on the flip side, I'm not one to take things on face value, and assume that because its worked for one, that it'll definately work for me. Does this mean I need to go out and get into a fight and test it out? I suppose you could, or you could test it in a controlled setting, with that added realism in there. Will it be the same? No, but if its trained right, you can get pretty close. I mean, every cop on the street hasn't fired his gun, yet during his training, he's put in a stressfull situation, to see how he'll react.

So, is it necessary? No, but again, its a plus. As I said, I do feel that its up to the student, to decide for themselves, whether or not, what they're learning, possibly from someone who's never put it to the test, will work.

You nailed it! It's easy to fall into the trap of beleiving "I know I'm good because I train" but it really all boils down to "how I train."

 

[Xinglu]

You nailed it! It's easy to fall into the trap of beleiving "I know I'm good because I train" but it really all boils down to "how I train."

And a good teacher is going to train you properly (or at least encourage you too). This stands entirely independent and unrelated to weather or not they have been in a street fight.

 

[seasoned]

You nailed it! It's easy to fall into the trap of believing "I know I'm good because I train" but it really all boils down to "how I train."

And a good teacher is going to train you properly (or at least encourage you too). This stands entirely independent and unrelated to weather or not they have been in a street fight.

Yes, this is the big decider in any conflict. If I heard it once I've heard it a thousand times. When the crap hits the fan, your training will kick in.

 

[repz]

Something else to keep in mind in a sports related theme, is that many boxing trainers gave up trying (or never bothered) to be a champion, or even competeting, yet they were skillfull instructors. Whos to say they are any good in the ring? Yet many of these trainers create amazing boxing legends, example, Cus with Tyson.

Many of these trainers are old with no boxng record, yet they are sought after for the best instruction in their sport.

Basically, you can be a great fighter with tons of experience, but not really be a great instructor to create a training plan, and convey the strategies to different individuals.

 

[Drac]

I've worked in security for over 15 years including being a bouncer in a tavern and have never gotten into a fight while working security nor been involved in a self defense situation while on the job. My experience has been that you can end most conflicts non violently if you know how to talk to people. Being big helps as well.

In response to your question, it certainly lends more credibility if you have actual experience defending yourself. Than again, someone who has managed to avoid violence is someone to listen to, learning how to defuse situations to avoid fights. I've lost count of the number of tense situations I have been in that likely would have exploded into violence if I had approached it differently. And certainly the confidence that I know what to do if attacked has helped me defuse a whole lot of potential fights.

Bravo Joab..We have similar backrounds except I was a cop for 21 years..I wasn't payed to get into fights however if someone believed that this fat grey haired cop was a push over they usually went to jail...LOL

 

[searcher]

Here is an add to my previous post. I DO have a problem with the guys who say that they can't fight on the street due to their style being to deadly and that is the reason they also do not spar in class.

If you are scared to fight, so be it. Just don't say that you are to deadly to fight.



*this is a rant* Thank you for tuning in.

 

[terryl965]

Here is an add to my previous post. I DO have a problem with the guys who say that they can't fight on the street due to their style being to deadly and that is the reason they also do not spar in class.

If you are scared to fight, so be it. Just don't say that you are to deadly to fight.



*this is a rant* Thank you for tuning in.

Your rant I have been saying that for years....:erg:

 

[Drac]

Here is an add to my previous post. I DO have a problem with the guys who say that they can't fight on the street due to their style being to deadly and that is the reason they also do not spar in class.

If you are scared to fight, so be it. Just don't say that you are to deadly to fight.



*this is a rant* Thank you for tuning in.

Your rant I have been saying that for years....:erg:

I always wondered how do they know that their sheet is that deadly if they don't spar or use it in self defense situations????

 

[Xue Sheng]

I always wondered how do they know that their sheet is that deadly if they don't spar or use it in self defense situations????

A mystical monk that lives in a cave told them

 

[Drac]

A mystical monk that lives in a cave told them

Thank you for clearing that up for me....

 

[Hudson69]

I dont think it is an issue unless the instructor is advertising something about being his/her system and type of instruction as being "street fight proven."

But otherwise if you like it and you are getting out of it what you believe you should be then no, I dont see a problem.

 

[K-man]

Here is an add to my previous post. I DO have a problem with the guys who say that they can't fight on the street due to their style being to deadly and that is the reason they also do not spar in class.

If you are scared to fight, so be it. Just don't say that you are to deadly to fight.

There are many techniques we train that are deadly and even more that, if fully applied, would cause severe injury to joints, eyes, ears etc. Just because someone trains those techniques should not preclude them from sparring because you can choose other, more appropriate techniques to use. If the style referred to above is that 'deadly' then it would be pretty useless as SD because most SD situations would not justify the use of lethal force. That illustrates the truth if the last sentence quoted above.
However, I do have some empathy with the statement that sports martial arts are not as effective for RBSD. Playing for sport is one side, playing for real is different. There are many quotes on this forum along the lines of 'train as you expect to act'. :asian:

 

[derobec]

Personally I feel that there is a major issue with a lot of bespoke 'self defense' classes. However, it's not so much whether the instructor has had real time fighting experience.

Let's be honest, the streets would be a bloody place if ALL martial art instructors were required to field test themselves prior to teaching. How many millions of would be teachers mixing it up? Then of course, we'd be discussing how many times it was necessary to fight before becoming a teacher.

The problem that I see is one of people with no idea, trying to pass off their techniques as adequate to fight off an attacker while having no real understanding of the psychological effects of being attacked. Sure, it's easy enough to teach the mechanics of an eye gouge, but you simply can't account for the fact that a great number of people will 'freeze' before being able to carry out such a technique (modern cultural conditioning over-riding two hours a week of self defense conditioning).

Do I see an easy answer? Well, no, to be truthful. If all clubs were somehow affiliated to teachers that had experienced real life combat then that would go some way towards closing the gap. Then of course there's the role of the unlucky student that gets attacked for real -but only if the teacher has the self confidence to ask for advice based on the experience. Maybe it could be worth bringing in guest lecturers who have specific knowledge in this area, but then there's the financial cost to a small club, and possibly a problem of the instructor's ego to overcome.

What I am confident of is that anyone teaching 'self defense' should have access to people who've been there (whether as part of their work or otherwise). The proliferation of martial art schools is moving the arts farther and farther away from their actual purpose. While this may be exceptable on some levels it is also doing a diservice to many students by allowing them to 'think' that they can defend themselves, while to be honest, they don't have a clue how to apply what they've learnt.

So, to recap: I'm happy to train with martial art instructors that have no personal experience of fighting, however, if they start to tell me how this or that technique translates into real life self defense then I need to know WHO told them, and based on what experience. After all, I'm not paying to learn how to get myself killed......

Best Wishes,
William

 

[Nishibi Ryu]

Interesting question, I have had 2 sensei and prior to meeting them I had no idea of their history. As it turned out my first one was a POW in WW2 in China ( He was Austrian ) and had to defend himself alot against the Chinese and Japanese which is a long story. He also defended himself against normal people after the war but that stopped once he moved to Australia and he spent the rest of his life teaching MA. MY second was his number one student after he passed away, and he was in Vietnam and use to fight a fair bit in the tougher parts of town and was even shot once for kicking someone out of a MA class.
They make for great stories but both always told me to be a Martial Artist not a fighter. They recall their fights but not in a proud way and one even said he was not a good person for it and does not want any of his students to be like him. We all disagree with him of course because he is a fantastic person but the essence of what he says is true, being a Martial Artist in a non war situation is the best way to go, life threatening situations are different of course.
I personally have not been in a fight since high school, I have been hit from behind about 8 years ago and they ran but that is not a fight and I am too old to worry about most things that would lead to one.
Mostly while I was younger I use to difuse situations by talking and we all left without a problem, does this make me a lesser teacher not IMO and what others think is not my concern.