An 8 year old black belt walks into your school.....

[IcemanSK]

Boy, that's a tough call. If he can't do the requirements then he shouldn't proceed on to new material. I'd say let him keep his belt but he will have to learn all of the filler requirements to get him to his rank in your school.

I'm less than 3 weeks away from opening my own school and I hope this doesn't happen to me. I won't be teaching the TKD curriculum so it might be easier for me. Good luck. I'm going to keep checking back on this thread.

I appreciate your thoughts Mr. Farnsworth. I don't plan on teaching him any NEW material, except for the specific one steps that the white & yellow belts know. He'll be 1st poom for a lloongg time.

 

[terryl965]

Iceman have you checked the Kukkiwon website to verify his claim and frankly I do see a major problem you will have, Let talk shall we. I be very blount and may offend some people but it is not my intentions.

1) He took the test like you saw on the video in your opinion did he past I would say NO, with the standards that your organization has he would be a white belt and you my friend knows that all to well.

2) If a student cannot remember a set of Poomsae he has been doing for over two years than he is no BBB not even a poom and you know that, I have 3 eight year old Kukkiwon Pooms at my school they know every poomsae and I'm not bragging just stating a fact and a lot of schools poom know all there form so again no way no how a BB

3) And to me this is the most important thing to consider to your school that has just been open for the general public what are you telling your students to bring in a child that does not know his Tae Kwon Do material and you let him stay at a level you do not teach, this is what it says go there to get a BB in a little time and I'll accept it when you come back.

Please Iceman you are a great teacher of our Art do not compomise the integrity that has been already taited by another Master X, explain that his training was not a waste of time he did learn somethings but it is alway better to start from a new and learn everything that he was suppose to learn and really recieve a BB that will be worth his wieght in Gold.

I know how passoniate you are Sir and some times starting with an emplty cup the water will fill so much faster than trying to regroup from someone or Master X mistakes, Please take the time and pray about what I have said and you will see the light at the end of a journey for a young mans future, recieving and keeping something with short cuts will only teach short cuts in life and to help this young man gain the responsibilities you can give him would be so rewarding in itself.

I wish you luck sir
Master Stoker

 

[searcher]

This may have been asked offline or in a post and I missed it, but Iceman have you went to the other school and talked with MasterX? I tend to bypass the student and go straight to the head of the problem. This may be to direct for whatever town you live in, but it can be effective. I am just trying to say that if this guy was producing crap in my town and in my organization I get pretty hot about it. Don't start a war, but maybe a civilized confrontation is in order.

 

[IcemanSK]

This may have been asked offline or in a post and I missed it, but Iceman have you went to the other school and talked with MasterX? I tend to bypass the student and go straight to the head of the problem. This may be to direct for whatever town you live in, but it can be effective. I am just trying to say that if this guy was producing crap in my town and in my organization I get pretty hot about it. Don't start a war, but maybe a civilized confrontation is in order.

I hear what you're saying, Searcher. But the organization is the WTF & not a close-knit organization like the USCDKA (my main organization). Frankly, if it were the USCDKA, I'd be small potatoes compared to who would be on this guy for teaching like that.

But, since it's another WTF school, I'd rather encourage the parents to talk to him first. If they don't get anywhere, perhaps I will talk to Master X at some point. But, I'd rather be known as the guy who teaches TKD well in my town. Word will get out.

 

[matt.m]

Ok, I talked to my pop about what he would do. He teaches hapkido but I got a comprable answer to what I find you may find as a decent compromise.

I put it in kids class scenerio for him so he knew to use kid diplomacy, so his answer was this and I am seeing my GM using this same thought process I will explain in a moment.

Dad said, "Start at white belt, if you are doing well then we will accelerate promote you and not charge you the testing fee."

I have a member of my class that made red belt as a kid, I have known him a long time. Same organization, no biggie. However, he began again as a white belt and is accelerating testing. He was fine with that. The guy is now in his 30's like me, I know there is a big difference in maturity between 32 and 8. However, if you explain to the parents in this manner they can soften the disappointment blow.

 

[Dillon Hall]

I think that it is sad that anyone would grant a Black Belt to an 8 year old. I an a 3rd Dan in Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan and I know that at least with my art that an 8 year old could not achieve such a rank. They would have to wait to be a little older before that happened.
As for what to do, are your two studios affiliated with the same organization? If they are, you may consider allowing him to test for a rank appropriate to his level in your school or have him start over as a white belt. It makes little difference but if he does not know his Hyung or anything, certainly do not have a black belt 8 year old.

 

[matt.m]

I think that it is sad that anyone would grant a Black Belt to an 8 year old. I an a 3rd Dan in Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan and I know that at least with my art that an 8 year old could not achieve such a rank. They would have to wait to be a little older before that happened.
As for what to do, are your two studios affiliated with the same organization? If they are, you may consider allowing him to test for a rank appropriate to his level in your school or have him start over as a white belt. It makes little difference but if he does not know his Hyung or anything, certainly do not have a black belt 8 year old.

Dillion, I see your point. However, to say who cares if he knows his hyung? That my friend is a substantial part of the Tae kwon Do cirriculum. It is a big deal if a practitioner knows their poomse, very much so indeed.

 

[matt.m]

Iceman,

Has there been a resolution to your new student yet? I know it has been a touchy subject.

 

[exile]

Dillion, I see your point. However, to say who cares if he knows his hyung? That my friend is a substantial part of the Tae kwon Do cirriculum. It is a big deal if a practitioner knows their poomse, very much so indeed.

Very true, and it's also the case that the `black belt' in question was a poom rank, not a dan. I actually think it's a bit of stretch to hae poom grading for someone that young, but there's still a big difference between poom and dan in the eyes of KKW.

 

[Ceicei]

Iceman,

Has there been a resolution to your new student yet? I know it has been a touchy subject.

Iceman,
I too am wondering (along with others); however, we are patient here. This is a situation you would not want to rush. Keep us updated when you do find out more information.

- Ceicei

 

[exile]

Iceman,

Has there been a resolution to your new student yet? I know it has been a touchy subject.

Don't want to camoflage Matt's query with my latest post, so will just echo his question (which I too am curious about)... any further outcomes at this point?

 

[IcemanSK]

Iceman,

Has there been a resolution to your new student yet? I know it has been a touchy subject.

Here's what is going to happen with this child. We are going to recognize his rank without certifying his rank. Which means, he will be able to wear his rank, but he will have to get up to speed. Once he is, then he will be recommended (by me) for certification of his rank. He has a lot of work to do. If he is willing to work, he'll have rank that means something: because he'll know he earned it.

Regarding his KKW cert.: I told his mom to call the old school about the cert.every 2 weeks until December 9th (the day she was told the cert would be in). If Master X was smart, he ordered it this week. It might get here by Dec 9th.

Thanks for your questions & helping me to think of parts of it I need to consider. I would seriously doubt I'd grant a poom rank for a 8 year old if he/she was my student from day one. But I will get him up to where he needs to be...even if it takes until he's 15. I've been keeping his self-esteem in mind, his parent's distrust of TKD folks, as well as the standards of my organization in mind. I ordered a poom belt & dobok for him to recognize his rank for a few reasons. One reason is so he's not wearing his old school's dobok & belt. He's in a new school, things will be different here.

 

[exile]

Here's what is going to happen with this child. We are going to recognize his rank without certifying his rank. Which means, he will be able to wear his rank, but he will have to get up to speed. Once he is, then he will be recommended (by me) for certification of his rank. He has a lot of work to do. If he is willing to work, he'll have rank that means something: because he'll know he earned it.

Regarding his KKW cert.: I told his mom to call the old school about the cert.every 2 weeks until December 9th (the day she was told the cert would be in). If Master X was smart, he ordered it this week. It might get here by Dec 9th.

Thanks for your questions & helping me to think of parts of it I need to consider. I would seriously doubt I'd grant a poom rank for a 8 year old if he/she was my student from day one. But I will get him up to where he needs to be...even if it takes until he's 15. I've been keeping his self-esteem in mind, his parent's distrust of TKD folks, as well as the standards of my organization in mind. I ordered a poom belt & dobok for him to recognize his rank for a few reasons. One reason is so he's not wearing his old school's dobok & belt. He's in a new school, things will be different here.

Iceman---sounds to me as if you've covered every important base here. He's a lucky kid, and his parents lucky parents, to have found your dojang. He can still feel he's done something worthwhile (which he has), he's now going to get real training and honest evaluation, and your school's standards are intact. And getting him into a new belt and dobok was exactly right---will help him flush that bad previous experience from his mind and feel at home in his new program. A very good day's work, all 'round!

 

[IcemanSK]

Iceman---sounds to me as if you've covered every important base here. He's a lucky kid, and his parents lucky parents, to have found your dojang. He can still feel he's done something worthwhile (which he has), he's now going to get real training and honest evaluation, and your school's standards are intact. And getting him into a new belt and dobok was exactly right---will help him flush that bad previous experience from his mind and feel at home in his new program. A very good day's work, all 'round!

That's very kind of you to say, sir.:asian:

 

[Kacey]

Iceman---sounds to me as if you've covered every important base here. He's a lucky kid, and his parents lucky parents, to have found your dojang. He can still feel he's done something worthwhile (which he has), he's now going to get real training and honest evaluation, and your school's standards are intact. And getting him into a new belt and dobok was exactly right---will help him flush that bad previous experience from his mind and feel at home in his new program. A very good day's work, all 'round!

I agree completely - you've done a great job recognizing the work he did for his previous instructor (after all, it's not the kid's fault) and still maintaining your own standards. :asian:

 

[terryl965]

Iceman you made all the right decission.
You are a great admoiratio to us all.
Terry

 

[matt.m]

Here's what is going to happen with this child. We are going to recognize his rank without certifying his rank. Which means, he will be able to wear his rank, but he will have to get up to speed. Once he is, then he will be recommended (by me) for certification of his rank. He has a lot of work to do. If he is willing to work, he'll have rank that means something: because he'll know he earned it.

Regarding his KKW cert.: I told his mom to call the old school about the cert.every 2 weeks until December 9th (the day she was told the cert would be in). If Master X was smart, he ordered it this week. It might get here by Dec 9th.

Thanks for your questions & helping me to think of parts of it I need to consider. I would seriously doubt I'd grant a poom rank for a 8 year old if he/she was my student from day one. But I will get him up to where he needs to be...even if it takes until he's 15. I've been keeping his self-esteem in mind, his parent's distrust of TKD folks, as well as the standards of my organization in mind. I ordered a poom belt & dobok for him to recognize his rank for a few reasons. One reason is so he's not wearing his old school's dobok & belt. He's in a new school, things will be different here.

I have to chime in with the rest, you made imo the best possible decision with what you were given. I salute you.

 

[IcemanSK]

An Update:

Last week, my 8 year old BB's mom brought in the KKW Poom cert. that she actually received from Master X. I've checked it with the KKW Dan/Poom check on the KKW site. But it came up empty. Perhaps they haven't been able to update it, yet.

Yesterday, the mom asked, "When can he test again?" I resisted the urge to scream, & politely said, "BB tests aren't like color belt tests that come every few months. It's years in between tests. In your son's case, he needs to relearn every form & put in a lot of effort before he tests again."

I believe that there's a 50/50 chance that this cert. is legit. As I've said before, it's in my best interest to have a BB student. But I'm honestly not sure he'll stick around long enough to learn my way of training. Time will tell.

 

[exile]

An Update:

Last week, my 8 year old BB's mom brought in the KKW Poom cert. that she actually received from Master X. I've checked it with the KKW Dan/Poom check on the KKW site. But it came up empty. Perhaps they haven't been able to update it, yet.

Yesterday, the mom asked, "When can he test again?" I resisted the urge to scream, & politely said, "BB tests aren't like color belt tests that come every few months. It's years in between tests. In your son's case, he needs to relearn every form & put in a lot of effort before he tests again."

I believe that there's a 50/50 chance that this cert. is legit. As I've said before, it's in my best interest to have a BB student. But I'm honestly not sure he'll stick around long enough to learn my way of training. Time will tell.

For his sake, let's hope he does, Iceman. He's gonna get a lot further going your route than the alternative. And his parents need to understand that what's important about MA training is content, not credential. The latter is valuable only if the content which the credential asserts really is there. For some reason it's hard for people to get their minds around this idea. But I suspect that if anyone can get it across to them, it's you. Good luck with this young fellow's ongoing saga!

 

[TKDDAD]

IcemanSK

My son is 13 year old and is a KKW 1st Poom. I could see is KKW# dtd 5/5/2006 before the actual certificate arrivial on 5/29/2006.

I also should mention that when looking up KKW Certificates the Country, Full First Middle and Last Name and Date of Birth has to match exactly or the KKW Certificate # will not display. (This you probably already know, I just posted that for those who didn't know.)

http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/index.jsp

I don't think KKW would mail out a Certificate without first updating there database first. It would be an administrative processing procedure in any business or organization. Kind of like posting an invoice into accounts receiveable database before mailing it out to the customer. You can see the invoice from the web before it actually arrives to the customer.

After reading all the other posts on this thread, was curious as to how the student is progressing after three months?

What was the reaction of the other color belt students to having a younger student with a Black Belt that wasn't as skilled and knowledgeable as they were?

From what I have read so far, this student is in the proper hands now.

Please keep in mind that I am veiwing this as a TKD Parent and not a TKD Master.

Best Regards,
TKDDAD
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