Americans woefully ignorant about religion, study says
- Thread starter Bill Mattocks
- Start date
Big Don
Sr. Grandmaster
Yesterday, I saw a cartoon of Martin Luther nailing his 95 theses to the Pope's chest with a spike. I can't find it now.
15/15, but that shouldn't surprise anyone. :lol:
National Lampoon (the magazine ) once ran a cartoon of Martin Luther nailing 95 feces to the castle church door....:lfao:
In all seriousness, it shouldn't come as any surprise. Religion isn't about scholarship, for most-and, with a few exceptions (like Judaism), really shouldn't be. When most of these faiths started, though, people were in the presence of the real events (whatever they were) that were the origin of that faith, or in the presence of those who could tell the tale, and saw things through that lens, while we're left to look at them through a lens of hundreds or thousands of years of refinement, later scholarship, commentary, seemingly arbitrary decisions, decisions by committee,myth, myth and more myth-sometimes downright con jobs-conflict, schism, usurpation, politicization, unification and reunification, and-sometimes-periods of near extinction-mistranslations, mistranslations, and mistranslations of mistranslations.
These are the subjects of scholarship, and it's no wonder that they often (not "always") lead to atheism or agnosticism-they are, after all, the products of the men who made them.
National Lampoon (the magazine ) once ran a cartoon of Martin Luther nailing 95 feces to the castle church door....:lfao:
In all seriousness, it shouldn't come as any surprise. Religion isn't about scholarship, for most-and, with a few exceptions (like Judaism), really shouldn't be. When most of these faiths started, though, people were in the presence of the real events (whatever they were) that were the origin of that faith, or in the presence of those who could tell the tale, and saw things through that lens, while we're left to look at them through a lens of hundreds or thousands of years of refinement, later scholarship, commentary, seemingly arbitrary decisions, decisions by committee,myth, myth and more myth-sometimes downright con jobs-conflict, schism, usurpation, politicization, unification and reunification, and-sometimes-periods of near extinction-mistranslations, mistranslations, and mistranslations of mistranslations.
These are the subjects of scholarship, and it's no wonder that they often (not "always") lead to atheism or agnosticism-they are, after all, the products of the men who made them.
10/10 on the short one... but why not. I'm agnostic! Seriously, most agnostics and atheists got to where they are by doing some soul searching and checking out world religions. So they should be a little more aware of religious beliefs in the broader sense than someone who never questioned what they were brought up to believe. On the other hand, my nephews attended a Jesuit prep school and some of their Jesuit teachers were not only very well educated but quite broad minded as well. The local Catholic diocese schools are far more parochial... (yeah, I know, a really groan bad pun. Just couldn't resist).
David43515
Master Black Belt
10/10 on the small one and 15/15 on the larger one. Mormon.
I would have missed the one about Miamonedese if it had come up, but I got lucky. (I remembered it after the test, Amazing what you can pick up whatching The Simpsons.) I guessed about the "First Great Awakening", never heard of it.
I`ve always been religious, just not always obedient. And I`ve always been interested in what other people believe and what they thier opinions are.
I would have missed the one about Miamonedese if it had come up, but I got lucky. (I remembered it after the test, Amazing what you can pick up whatching The Simpsons.) I guessed about the "First Great Awakening", never heard of it.
I`ve always been religious, just not always obedient. And I`ve always been interested in what other people believe and what they thier opinions are.
Cirdan
Senior Master
10/10 and 15/15, but I`ll admit I got lucky since at I just went with my gut on at least one (Joseph Smith sounds like a mormon name to me). I don`t follow any religion or -ism. Hmph, I should sue my junior high teacher for givving me a D in religion. Anyway it is way more interesting and easier to remember that chatholics actually eat christ, than ro recite some dry text.
What suprises me is how anyone can score as low as 50% since most the questions are extremely easy ones.
What suprises me is how anyone can score as low as 50% since most the questions are extremely easy ones.
CoryKS
Senior Master
9/10, 14/15. In the spirit of full disclosure, I corrected the answer I got wrong on the first quiz when I took the second one, so technically 13/15.
I think that branding everybody as 'woefully ignorant' because they don't know the answer to these questions is unfair, because it assumes that people have an obligation to know these things. Unless it pertains to one's own religion, there's no obligation. As an atheist, I consider this knowledge to be trivia. I just happen to be good at trivia.
I think that branding everybody as 'woefully ignorant' because they don't know the answer to these questions is unfair, because it assumes that people have an obligation to know these things. Unless it pertains to one's own religion, there's no obligation. As an atheist, I consider this knowledge to be trivia. I just happen to be good at trivia.
10/10 and 14/15. I also missed the Jonathan Edwards question. I thank my Jesuit education (high school and college) for my success. My freshman year of high school, our required religion class was "World Religions". That Jesuit education turned a lot of people into agnostics, but I believe it also gave those that stayed Catholics, or returned to Catholicism later in life a deeper understanding of their faith and of faith in general.
OP
OP
I agree with all of that; however I think it is still an issue. Not because people don't study religion enough, but because they tend to make generalizations about what believers of other religions believe, and they're wrong.
One can argue how many angels can dance upon the head of a pin; but if one does not know that faith A believes in angels and faith B does not, then this can give rise to the worst kind of bigotry - mistaken bigotry.
I speak with some experience. When I moved to NC, I was told by a neighbor that he thought I was "OK for a Catholic," but we Catholics are really Satan-worshipers because we believe everything the Pope says is the inerrant Word of God. Uh, that's not true. We only believe that the Pope is inerrant when he speaks ex cathedra, which no Pope has done since 1953 or so. Want to dislike Catholics? Fine! But please hate us for actual facts, not stuff you made up or misheard.
Obviously we see this to a far greater extent lately with regard to what folks believe about the Islamic faith; in the past, it was about the Jewish faith.
Lack of scholarship is not the same as dangerous (and often intentional) ignorance.
OP
OP
However, much bigotry is based upon disagreement with what another believes or does based on their faith. "He sacrifices goats, and I have a problem with that." When the bigotry is based on misinformation, innuendo, or outright lies...I don't see that as a good thing. A person can certainly be a 'good person' without knowing a thing about religion; but if they're going to hate members of religion A on the basis that they do X, Y, or Z, it behooves them to know that this actually what they believe or do.
I was once told by a woman she knew all about Jews because she'd seen Fiddler on the Roof a few times.
Education is the key to defeating bigotry, the more we know about each other the more we find we have in common and the less chance of misunderstandings or at any rate more chance of sorting them out. Well hopefully
Education is the key to defeating bigotry, the more we know about each other the more we find we have in common and the less chance of misunderstandings or at any rate more chance of sorting them out. Well hopefully
why should you know about religion?
who ever said everyone had to start liking everyone else or have just cause for not liking them? "well you have to justify you are not a bigot and know enough to not like them." Okay then i ask simply "why?". Goes back to play nice with the toys, in the sandbox, team player "orthodox " that has run rampant in recent years. That in itself is a brainwashing concept. Why do you have to have just cause or reason for not liking something or someone? seems to me that if you dont like something that is a individual choice, not be decided by others. Just as if you choose not to know about it.
who ever said everyone had to start liking everyone else or have just cause for not liking them? "well you have to justify you are not a bigot and know enough to not like them." Okay then i ask simply "why?". Goes back to play nice with the toys, in the sandbox, team player "orthodox " that has run rampant in recent years. That in itself is a brainwashing concept. Why do you have to have just cause or reason for not liking something or someone? seems to me that if you dont like something that is a individual choice, not be decided by others. Just as if you choose not to know about it.
No on said you have to like anything at all but remaining ignorant of the world and people around you is well, plain ignorant. It's not a matter of liking at all, it's a matter of education and knowledge. if you have enemies or people wanting to destroy your way of life all the more important that you understand them. Understanding is everything, knowledge is power. Stumbling around in the dark is a miserable way to exist.
OP
OP
To avoid making stupid mistakes.
It is certainly a personal choice to remain ignorant. And I would not wish to mandate that people be forced to become educated on religion, or that they be forced to be nice to others whom they do not like. I will even support your idea that a person should not be forced to like or dislike someone based on facts; they are certainly free to hate someone based upon mistaken notions and misunderstood facts if they wish. That is the core of freedom; freedom even to be a complete idiot.
However, I will say that in terms of societies functioning well, such behavior is ugly and I personally don't care for it. I find it loathsome and reprehensible that a person would intentionally choose to be bigoted; even worse that they would do so based upon incorrect facts. Intentional ignorance I have run into before. I understand it, but I don't approve of it.
I've met my share of ignorant buffoons who become physically angry if not violent at the very idea of learning anything which would tend to disprove their misconceptions. I once had a very heated debate with an (ex) girlfriend who declared that Jesus was not a Jew. The very notion that he could have been a Jew interfered with her hatred of Jews, so of course he wasn't one. When I tried to point it out in her own Bible where it said he was a Jew, of the House of David, we broke up. Well, whatever. Free country, she's free to believe such idiocy. And I'm free to continue to think of her as not just stupid, but dangerously so.
WC_lun
Senior Master
I was once told by a woman she knew all about Jews because she'd seen Fiddler on the Roof a few times.
Education is the key to defeating bigotry, the more we know about each other the more we find we have in common and the less chance of misunderstandings or at any rate more chance of sorting them out. Well hopefully
Unfortunately, I think a lot of people today do not want to understand other people or know more. They are comfortable with thier hate and bigotry. Learning something that might endanger that comfort is not wanted. Never mind that greater understanding might lead to less violence. That isn't a concern.
Ramirez
Black Belt
actually Bill I am surprised you got to the point of having someone like that as girlfriend.....hated Jews?????? I can't imagine she was a wonderful person in all other aspects and this came as a shock to you.
Funny if she turned out to be Jewish and didn't know it! There was a story on AOL the other day about two neo Nazis in Poland who had admitted beating up Jews etc who researched their backgrounds and found out they were actually Jewish. They actually are now even going to shul and are sorry for the people they beat up! It's too late at night now for me to look fo the story, must sleep! (it's the 'I'll just click on to one more post' syndrome lol at the moment, must be firm and shut the computer down)
OP
OP
We fell madly into bed with each other. The learning experience came later. Cost a lot, too.
Ramirez
Black Belt
Well I can relate to thinking with the wrong head....
SensibleManiac
Black Belt
I scored 8 on 10 but one was a mistake, I new Jesus was born in Bethlehem but didn't pay attention to the question, other than that it is interesting that those who claim to be atheists know most about religion, I agree that usually those who study religion the most will end up not believing it.
Although I do agree that there are some anti-theism thumpers, most who will question the existence of God or even deny it have come to this conclusion through rational thought not rationalizing and that is never a bad thing.
Logic is what seperates us from all the other animals, along with compassion.
Although I do agree that there are some anti-theism thumpers, most who will question the existence of God or even deny it have come to this conclusion through rational thought not rationalizing and that is never a bad thing.
Logic is what seperates us from all the other animals, along with compassion.
