Always wondered does this kind of strike have a name/term?

[drop bear]

What are you talking about?

Read the thread. Follow the discussion then jump in and take sides.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I personally like the strike and yes I have used it in the street . It most defiantly stop the person I had a conflict with and it helped me lift him off the ground after being struck. YES he lived.
It is a very effective strike that is taught in many systems and used against different parts of the body

 

[Dirty Dog]

So from you experience of killing people with that shot. Or from anybody who has killed a guy with that shot. I understand death punches sound a bit cool but it is not as reliable a kill as you may have been told.

I would be impressed if you could find a death from it.

It's not a strike commonly used by street brawlers, but one clearly known to those with formal training (though less so for those whose training is sport-oriented).

Over the last 30 years, I've seen several (living) laryngeal fractures resulting from assaults. I've seen more that we were trying to resuscitate (these would be the deaths you asked about...) and talked to ambulance staff about even more that (from the description of their assessment findings) probably had laryngeal fractures but were not transported (what we call DRT - Dead Right There).

The structures of the trachea/cricothyroid/hyoid/larynx are among the more fragile parts of the human body. They're fairly well protected by their location (dropping the chin does a fine job of protecting them) but when they are struck with even moderate force, the resulting injury is extremely dangerous.

Of those that survive, virtually all will require some time on a ventilator, and the vast majority will require surgery. Most will find some changes to their voice, and a significant portion will never speak again.

With treatment (that means expert airway management) the mortality rate is 40-45%. Without treatment, as you might imagine, it is much higher.

 

[drop bear]

I personally like the strike and yes I have used it in the street . It most defiantly stop the person I had a conflict with and it helped me lift him off the ground after being struck. YES he lived.
It is a very effective strike that is taught in many systems and used against different parts of the body

I have really only seen it as a throat shot. Where else would you use it?

 

[Dirty Dog]

I have really only seen it as a throat shot. Where else would you use it?

It's used against joints. It can also be used at an upward angle under the jaw to disrupt balance and/or control the head.

Try actually reading the thread. This has all been pointed out at least three times now.

 

[drop bear]

It's not a strike commonly used by street brawlers, but one clearly known to those with formal training (though less so for those whose training is sport-oriented).

Over the last 30 years, I've seen several (living) laryngeal fractures resulting from assaults. I've seen more that we were trying to resuscitate (these would be the deaths you asked about...) and talked to ambulance staff about even more that (from the description of their assessment findings) probably had laryngeal fractures but were not transported (what we call DRT - Dead Right There).

The structures of the trachea/cricothyroid/hyoid/larynx are among the more fragile parts of the human body. They're fairly well protected by their location (dropping the chin does a fine job of protecting them) but when they are struck with even moderate force, the resulting injury is extremely dangerous.

Of those that survive, virtually all will require some time on a ventilator, and the vast majority will require surgery. Most will find some changes to their voice, and a significant portion will never speak again.

With treatment (that means expert airway management) the mortality rate is 40-45%. Without treatment, as you might imagine, it is much higher.

So you feel it is an automatic death move? Or a move that may result in death. Because let's just be a bit sensible about this I could make the same case for punching.

 

[drop bear]

It's used against joints. It can also be used at an upward angle under the jaw to disrupt balance and/or control the head.

Try actually reading the thread. This has all been pointed out at least three times now.

You wouldn't palm heel the head? Considering you are muckning around with boney jaws and stuff. I did do a re read. I can see the nose shot working.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Read the thread. Follow the discussion then jump in and take sides.

I have read the thread, and I've contributed to it. I don't think you can make that same claim unfortunately, as others have already pointed out to you. I detailed my use of the move in the OP and the outcome. Your 'reply' didn't make sense. That or you're just screwing around. As for taking sides...I don't see a side to take. It is a legitimate strike, it has been used by several here and several more train in it's use.

As far as what else you can to with the movement, beyond or in conjunction with striking..well, that's already been answered several times.

So you feel it is an automatic death move?

Again, have you really read this thread? Seriously. I don't understand why you're asking these things :hmm:

Let's recap, and I really want you to understand. This can be used as a strike (into the throat or upward into the neck or into a joint), it can be used to control (for example the infra orbital is quite a useful pressure point for control and/or pain compliance), it can transition into a balance displacement or take down or even a transporter. It 'can' be used at a deadly force level, but doesn't necessarily need to be at a deadly force level.

Now, does this answer some of your questions? Do you have any other questions. If so, then ask. But please do so with the actual intent of furthering the discussion. That's not too much to ask.

 

[K-man]

I find it strange that people can accept that there are potentially lethal techniques used in grappling such as RNC but that in other TMAs that actually date back to lawless days where you may have needed to kill your attacker, don't have such techniques. The same people probably accept that Special Forces soldiers are taught to kill with their bare hands, but in the same breath are saying that the people who teach them don't have those same skills.

In all martial arts there are numerous techniques that can kill or cause major injury. There are areas of the body that are more vulnerable than others. Many martial arts are sanitised. The same techniques are taught to children as are taught to adults. The application of the technique is not taught. We have people rubbishing kata as anachronistic and useless, yet kata are filled with potentially lethal techniques and the information on how those techniques should be applied. In most schools those applications are never shown, mainly because the instructors have no idea of what they are actually teaching, wrt kata.

We recently had a guy here in Australia in strife with the authorities for teaching knife fighting. His arguement was that unless the attacking partner knew how to attack with a knife it was unrealistic training for the guys learning to defend. He had a good point but he shouldn't have shouted it to all and sundry.

Same thing applies to RBMA. If we were to promote the fact that we are teaching techniques that are potentially lethal there will be people screaming for us to be closed down. Here in Victoria it is illegal even for MMA fights to be conducted in a cage. That makes then too brutal.

Same with this technique of the OP. The way it is shown and the way it is described here it is a nasty strike. Done a slightly different way it is potentially lethal. Don't expect to find it on YT anytime soon.

 

[drop bear]

I have read the thread, and I've contributed to it. I don't think you can make that same claim unfortunately, as others have already pointed out to you. I detailed my use of the move in the OP and the outcome. Your 'reply' didn't make sense. That or you're just screwing around. As for taking sides...I don't see a side to take. It is a legitimate strike, it has been used by several here and several more train in it's use.

As far as what else you can to with the movement, beyond or in conjunction with striking..well, that's already been answered several times.



Again, have you really read this thread? Seriously. I don't understand why you're asking these things :hmm:

Let's recap, and I really want you to understand. This can be used as a strike (into the throat or upward into the neck or into a joint), it can be used to control (for example the infra orbital is quite a useful pressure point for control and/or pain compliance), it can transition into a balance displacement or take down or even a transporter. It 'can' be used at a deadly force level, but doesn't necessarily need to be at a deadly force level.

Now, does this answer some of your questions? Do you have any other questions. If so, then ask. But please do so with the actual intent of furthering the discussion. That's not too much to ask.

Yeah you are off with the birds again.

It is not my question. It is k mans question. So go sook at him if you think it is not legitimate. As I contributed earlier. I have popped people with this shot and it has worked fine. Nobody died. And I did not break my hand

You have popped people with this shot. Nobody died. You did not break your hand.

There was another guy who popped somone (sorry i cant remember the poster) and nobody died. And he did not break their hand.

So there are defiantly cases where this shot is used people don't die and hands don't break.

Is everybody in the same page now?

 

[Dirty Dog]

So you feel it is an automatic death move? Or a move that may result in death.

I'm sorry. Was I not clear enough when I told you what the mortality rate is for blunt trauma laryngeal fractures? If you'll be specific about which part you didn't understand, I'll try to clarify.

Because let's just be a bit sensible about this I could make the same case for punching.

You certainly could claim that punching someone has a mortality rate similar to that of laryngeal fracture. You'd be wrong. You'd look like a moron. But you could certainly make the claim.

Are you making such a claim?

You wouldn't palm heel the head? Considering you are muckning around with boney jaws and stuff.

In case it's not painfully obvious, the jaw is a much much much larger and stronger bone than the hyoid. Nor does fracturing it generally result in the trachea closing off.

I did do a re read. I can see the nose shot working.

What is "the nose shot"? Are you suggesting that a strike to the nose has anything near the mortality rate of one to the hyoid bone?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

You have popped people with this shot. Nobody died. You did not break your hand.

There was another guy who popped somone (sorry i cant remember the poster) and nobody died. And he did not break their hand.

So there are defiantly cases where this shot is used people don't die and hands don't break.

Is everybody in the same page now?

Then why did you ask the following question:

So when you used it who performed the tracheotomy?

What was your purpose in this one-liner?

 

[drop bear]

Then why did you ask the following question:



What was your purpose in this one-liner?

K man asked it of me. I asked it of you.

 

[drop bear]

I'm sorry. Was I not clear enough when I told you what the mortality rate is for blunt trauma laryngeal fractures? If you'll be specific about which part you didn't understand, I'll try to clarify.



You certainly could claim that punching someone has a mortality rate similar to that of laryngeal fracture. You'd be wrong. You'd look like a moron. But you could certainly make the claim.

Are you making such a claim?



In case it's not painfully obvious, the jaw is a much much much larger and stronger bone than the hyoid. Nor does fracturing it generally result in the trachea closing off.



What is "the nose shot"? Are you suggesting that a strike to the nose has anything near the mortality rate of one to the hyoid bone?

OK are there more cases of that throat shot killing people in violence than punching?

Here is one case of a death from punching. Match that and we will see where we go from there.

http://www.nj.com/somerset/index.ss...h_thrown_during_argument_prosecutor_says.html

And the nose shot is viable. Not lethal. But works for what it is supposed to do. Which for me is generally biting defence.

 

[Dirty Dog]

OK are there more cases of that throat shot killing people in violence than punching?

Um... no.... because there are a lot more people punched than there are struck with an arc hand to the throat. Shouldn't that be painfully obvious?

And the nose shot is viable. Not lethal. But works for what it is supposed to do. Which for me is generally biting defence.

So, basically, it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the actual topic under discussion. You know. An arc hand strike. Remember? Did you have an actual point you wanted to make here, or are you just posting whatever randomly comes to your mind?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

K man asked it of me. I asked it of you.

Okay, but why? What was your purpose? I'd already described my altercation in detail.

 

[drop bear]

Um... no.... because there are a lot more people punched than there are struck with an arc hand to the throat. Shouldn't that be painfully obvious?



So, basically, it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the actual topic under discussion. You know. An arc hand strike. Remember? Did you have an actual point you wanted to make here, or are you just posting whatever randomly comes to your mind?

find one death from an arc hand strike.

OK so we are discussing this strike. I was then moving the discussion on to other targets. Chin and nose were two that were mentioned. So as part of the topic I suggested the palm heel would be better for the chin but the nose shot is a pretty good one. For certain situations.

So it does have something to do with the topic and is not at all random.

 

[drop bear]

Okay, but why? What was your purpose? I'd already described my altercation in detail.

Ask k man his question.

I assume he thinks anybody who nails a guy in the throat kills them.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Ask k man his question.

I assume he thinks anybody who nails a guy in the throat kills them.

At the moment I don't have a question for K-man, I understand everything he's posted in this thread. You'll notice that I've thanked him for several of his posts. My question to YOU is why YOU would post a one-liner to me that was clearly unnecessary, unfunny and uncalled for. I'm going to suggest to you that in the future you think twice about your post before hitting submit. May save you some hassle. Just a friendly suggestion.

So as part of the topic I suggested the palm heel would be better for the chin but the nose shot is a pretty good one. For certain situations.

It is situational and depends upon the goal you're looking to achieve. The hand, as described by the OP and most everyone here, would be an easier transition from strike to control/balance displacement/throw or transporter than a palm heel to the chin (called a chin jab in WWII combatives). The chin jab is quite effective, but if done properly is going to move the head at an upward angle away from you which makes it harder to facilitate a control based movement. It is better as a force-on-force strike to disable/stun the attacker.

 

[Dirty Dog]

find one death from an arc hand strike.

I have personally seen deaths from laryngeal fractures. There is no way to know exactly what strike was used, since witnesses are unlikely to be both trained and observant enough to report anything other than 'he got hit in the throat'. It doesn't really matter if the strike was a knife hand, ridge hand or arc hand. A straight punch is less likely, but possible. You do understand that it's far easier for a 'bladed' hand to reach the target (the one actually under discussion, not your off-topic ones)than a closed fist, don't you?

OK so we are discussing this strike. I was then moving the discussion on to other targets.

Yes, you were attempting to derail the thread by making off-topic posts. That's fairly obvious.

Chin and nose were two that were mentioned.

I don't believe that anybody has suggested using an arc hand strike against either of those targets.

So as part of the topic I suggested the palm heel would be better for the chin but the nose shot is a pretty good one. For certain situations.

Yes, we can see that you're trying to derail the thread by posting off-topic randomness.

So it does have something to do with the topic and is not at all random.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of arc hand strikes. Try to keep up. And stop trying to derail the thread.