Aikido vs anything?

[morph4me]

when i was growing up my best friends dad was a very high ranking aikido a guy and we would spend maybe 2 hours every day, 7 days a week learning and practicing aikido! i did this for around 5 years , as i wasnt forally training i never bothered with gradings but i must of been black belt level and my friend had been training since he could walk and after about 2 weeks of boxing i would wipe the floor with him the fact is you cant catch punches or what not ect its a beautiful art but martial its not.

It's true, you can't catch punches. If that's what you were trying to do, it's no wonder that your aikido wasn't effective.

 

[chav buster]

i didnt say some of the techniques didnt work i actuelly said that most of the standing arm locks need to be set up with strike just like yourself and like yourself i have stated its not a combat system. what i did say was that as a martial art it is not practical for self defence.
Ueshiba Morihei took the practical side out of jujitsu and what your left with is an art that is not practical for self defence hence why no one can find any vids of people doing full cointact sparring using aikido or why anyone is prepared to make one.

 

[hungfistron]

Ueshiba Morihei took the practical side out of jujitsu and what your left with is an art that is not practical for self defence hence why no one can find any vids of people doing full cointact sparring using aikido or why anyone is prepared to make one.

Please realize that you are in the Aikido Forum, describing how "non practical" the work of the Founder of Aikido is to students that have been studying him and his style for years...

 

[Kumbajah]

i didnt say some of the techniques didnt work i actuelly said that most of the standing arm locks need to be set up with strike just like yourself and like yourself i have stated its not a combat system. what i did say was that as a martial art it is not practical for self defence.
Ueshiba Morihei took the practical side out of jujitsu and what your left with is an art that is not practical for self defence hence why no one can find any vids of people doing full cointact sparring using aikido or why anyone is prepared to make one.

You did say they didn't work - your first post this thread

it dosnt work, thats the whole truth

Your comments demonstrate a lack of understanding imo - Catching punches etc - needing to strike to make it work etc.

But if you are comfortable in your opinion keep it - I don't think you are going to make any converts in the Aikido Forum I don't think Aikido is any poorer for your lack of participation or negative opinion. If you don't get it - you don't get it.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Just because the philosophy of aikido is one of peace and non resistance doesn't mean the techniques won't work in a self-defense situation. I think a person would have to be highly skilled to use only aikido for the purpose of self-defence, but it is not impossible.

 

[morph4me]

i didnt say some of the techniques didnt work i actuelly said that most of the standing arm locks need to be set up with strike just like yourself and like yourself i have stated its not a combat system. what i did say was that as a martial art it is not practical for self defence.
Ueshiba Morihei took the practical side out of jujitsu and what your left with is an art that is not practical for self defence hence why no one can find any vids of people doing full cointact sparring using aikido or why anyone is prepared to make one.

I don't know who it is you're referring to, but I certainly didn't say that it's not a combat system and I didn't say it's nto practical for self defense. Setting up with a strike is part of aikido, that's what atemi is all about. But as Kumbajah said

I don't think Aikido is any poorer for your lack of participation or negative opinion. If you don't get it - you don't get it.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I personally know a number of LEO's that have used aikido training out there on the streets. It worked for them. :idunno:

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

... hence why no one can find any vids of people doing full cointact sparring using aikido or why anyone is prepared to make one.

What would that even look like? Full contact sparring between aikidoka... Two aikidoka meet in the ring, bow, shake hands, then leave.

As far as real-world self-defense: I've used aikido techniques in real fights and it worked just fine. *shrug* I'm sorry your personal experience with it wasn't very satisfying...

 

[K-man]

i didnt say some of the techniques didnt work i actuelly said that most of the standing arm locks need to be set up with strike just like yourself and like yourself i have stated its not a combat system. what i did say was that as a martial art it is not practical for self defence.
Ueshiba Morihei took the practical side out of jujitsu and what your left with is an art that is not practical for self defence hence why no one can find any vids of people doing full cointact sparring using aikido or why anyone is prepared to make one.

Don't forget self defence is defence against an attack, not to launch an attack. Good aikido can be good for self defence if the practitioner has the necessary skills.
I have seen bad TKD and bad karate as well.

 

[jarrod]

while i disagree with your overall assessment of aikido, i had never seen that video with commentary, & it was hilarious. thanks.

anyway, i have this theory that a lot of the arts that have a reputation for being ineffective often don't suffer from poor techniques or strategies, but from poor training methods. as many styles age, their methods become formalized or rigid, or in some cases standards are lowered in order to increase popularity. this is certainly the case with many aikido dojos (as well as karate, tkd, or any martial art that has been around for a 100 years or so), but in all honesty the style itself is valid. aikido may have lended itself more to this corruption because of it's lofty philosophy which is worthwile, but lends itself to misinterpretation. but i believe the art itself is still sound.

jf

 

[Aikicomp]

I have problems finding a video really showing aikido. I just see demonstrations like Steven Segal taking out 10 people that just run at him and having attacks that aren't even directed at the guy.

I guess those demonstrations are the reason why aikido is pretty much ridiculed and said not to work. but i believe it has to be good for something...

so, anyone have a video of aikido in real action? :0

That's probably because it is for demonstration purposes very different than a real attack.

I would like to see you attack Take Sensei with him fully understanding that you intend to injure or hurt him. I'm willing to bet that you will find out very quickly "the something it is good for".

Michael

 

[Aikicomp]

Chav buster,

Your comments are ignorant and likely formed on the basis of your own failure to understand the system of aikido.

While aikido is not a combat system exactly is does have combat applications since it is mainly derived from a combative art called daito ryu.

In my dojo we don't practice aikido, but we practice aiki movements and when done right they can be used with any kind of committed attack even the all powerful boxers and mma and muy thai fighters.

The first lesson of aikido is entering which is to seal the gap and close distance, often one can set up a strike during these movements as any qualified aikidoka or aikijujutsuka would tell you to do in the case of a real fight.

Is it difficult to use in a real fight? That depends on your training. If you train against realistic attacks (which not everyone does) then you will have a better chance at success.

Just because you can't make it work doesn't mean it won't work when a skilled person is using it. That arguement would be like me saying that a gun jammed on me and wouldn't fire so therefore guns don't work. Do you see the fallacy there?

+1 good posting.

I teach Ju-Jitsu with aspects of Aikido/Aiki-jujutsu mixed in and as I have gotten older I use more Aikido technique and principle in my Ju-Jitsu (it is easier). Having said that I am no expert in Aikido, however this is how I understand it:

Aikido in it's pure form is a way to defend yourself without causing undue injury to your opponent, essentially you take care of your opponent (via harmony and timing) while stopping them from hurting you. Now keep in mind the same techniques used in Aikido to take care of your opponent can also be used to destroy your opponent as well.

Examples would be:

Kote Gaieshi can be used to throw and/or control someone by locking the wrist joint without injury to the wrist or it can be used to totally destroy the wrist joint.

Shihonage can be used to throw and/or control someone by locking the wrist, elbow and shoulder without injuring the person or it can be used to destroy the wrist, elbow and shoulder of your opponent as well.

Nikyu and Sankyu can be used to control and/or throw an opponent by locking the wrist and elbow without injuring or it can be used to destroy the wrist and elbow.

If I'm incorrect in any of these applications an Aikidoka who studies purely Aikido can explain it better than I.

The bottom line is IMO, Any Martial Art can be used as a very effective way of defending oneself do not assume that just because something "looks" gentle or passive that it can not be destructive as well.

 

[mook jong man]

Whats to say that the attacker coudn't be softened up first with a couple of strikes or maybe a low kick , and then go into jointlocking once contact with the arms has been made .

Thats the way I would do it , I also think its very bad form to come on here and start generalising about these people's style .

 

[Korppi76]

im sure it does work great in the dojo but wrist and standing arm locks are hard enough to apply with strikes and to set them up and are impossible to do so in real life without.

i dont want to offend and if you do it for fun or what ever fine but dont confuse it a practical fightin art.

I did meant outside of our dojo My teacher works part time securiguard (when he isn't teaching). I use aikido when sparring with friends how train other martial arts.

But I have to admit it is hard to use aikido, I slip easily to some methods from other arts. And I don't use joint locks except when ground where I can control other better. My teacher can lock active persons while standing but he has trained more than twice as long as me.

 

[chav buster]

+1 good posting.

I teach Ju-Jitsu with aspects of Aikido/Aiki-jujutsu mixed in and as I have gotten older I use more Aikido technique and principle in my Ju-Jitsu (it is easier). Having said that I am no expert in Aikido, however this is how I understand it:

Aikido in it's pure form is a way to defend yourself without causing undue injury to your opponent, essentially you take care of your opponent (via harmony and timing) while stopping them from hurting you. Now keep in mind the same techniques used in Aikido to take care of your opponent can also be used to destroy your opponent as well.

Examples would be:

Kote Gaieshi can be used to throw and/or control someone by locking the wrist joint without injury to the wrist or it can be used to totally destroy the wrist joint.

Shihonage can be used to throw and/or control someone by locking the wrist, elbow and shoulder without injuring the person or it can be used to destroy the wrist, elbow and shoulder of your opponent as well.

Nikyu and Sankyu can be used to control and/or throw an opponent by locking the wrist and elbow without injuring or it can be used to destroy the wrist and elbow.

If I'm incorrect in any of these applications an Aikidoka who studies purely Aikido can explain it better than I.

The bottom line is IMO, Any Martial Art can be used as a very effective way of defending oneself do not assume that just because something "looks" gentle or passive that it can not be destructive as well.

thats was my point really, it works in the dojo but against an attack thats trying to do you damage and is rully ressisting it just dosnt work.

 

[chav buster]

You did say they didn't work - your first post this thread



Your comments demonstrate a lack of understanding imo - Catching punches etc - needing to strike to make it work etc.

But if you are comfortable in your opinion keep it - I don't think you are going to make any converts in the Aikido Forum I don't think Aikido is any poorer for your lack of participation or negative opinion. If you don't get it - you don't get it.

im not trying to convert anyone way from aikido, if you have been training in it for years and enjoy it good for you but if anyone is thinking about taking up aikido for self defence i hope i have given them something to think abour.

like i said before standing joint locks can work if you stun someone with strikes sort of like using the jab to set up the cross.

the elephant in the room as far as aikido is no one seems prepared to do full contact sparring using aikido, it dosnt have to be against a skilled fighter just somone coming full on and someone using aikido..

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi,

Sorry, Chav, I've got to take everyone else's side here. Aikido is multi-faceted, and while I can see your argument that it is not the most practical of systems, I would hesitate to say that it simply doesn't work at all.

As stated by many others, it will often depend on how you train it, just like any other art. I also feel you may be (unfairly?) taking one version of the art, and the way you were taught it as the only method in which Aikido is transmitted.

For a "harder-edged" version, I would look to the Yoshinkan group, who take their teachings from Gozo Shioda, who was a first generation student of Ueshiba Sensei. Shioda left Ueshiba when O-Sensei began changing his philosophical approach to a more "gentle", or pacifist way of thinking. Shioda began teaching Aikido according to the way he learnt it. And where he learnt it was in the early school, known quite appropriately and accurately, as Jigoku Dojo, or the Hell Dojo, due to it's reputation for very rough training and quite serious application of techniques.

Oh, and Ueshiba Sensei himself said that Atemi is essential, so any Aikido school not teaching that at some point is missing a major part of the art. Is there the chance that that aspect was perhaps missed in your experience? So, yes, the use of strikes is not only evident in Aikido, in order to apply the techniques, it is consideredvery important. But the training is often done without the strikes, so the student doesn't get lazy about applying the principles of the art.

 

[chav buster]

Hi,

Sorry, Chav, I've got to take everyone else's side here. Aikido is multi-faceted, and while I can see your argument that it is not the most practical of systems, I would hesitate to say that it simply doesn't work at all.

As stated by many others, it will often depend on how you train it, just like any other art. I also feel you may be (unfairly?) taking one version of the art, and the way you were taught it as the only method in which Aikido is transmitted.

For a "harder-edged" version, I would look to the Yoshinkan group, who take their teachings from Gozo Shioda, who was a first generation student of Ueshiba Sensei. Shioda left Ueshiba when O-Sensei began changing his philosophical approach to a more "gentle", or pacifist way of thinking. Shioda began teaching Aikido according to the way he learnt it. And where he learnt it was in the early school, known quite appropriately and accurately, as Jigoku Dojo, or the Hell Dojo, due to it's reputation for very rough training and quite serious application of techniques.

Oh, and Ueshiba Sensei himself said that Atemi is essential, so any Aikido school not teaching that at some point is missing a major part of the art. Is there the chance that that aspect was perhaps missed in your experience? So, yes, the use of strikes is not only evident in Aikido, in order to apply the techniques, it is consideredvery important. But the training is often done without the strikes, so the student doesn't get lazy about applying the principles of the art.

ok fair enough you make some very good points but i still stand by what i have said about its practicality, maybe i was to harsh in saying its totally useless but i still think if you spent your time in a more practical ma you would be alot better off if you got into a real fight, aikido is concept of practicality

 

[Chris Parker]

Cool. It just means what you mean by "practical". I know of one Aikido practitioner who, when faced with a violent attack, simply and immediately broke his assailants arm, and I know of another who simply intercepted a person who was harassing passengers on a train, sat him down, and defused the entire situation (without any escalation into physical action). These two are, to me, perfect examples of Aikido's practical side.

To clarify, I think we need to look at exactly what is meant by self defence. It is simply the application of skills developed to protect you from danger/harm. Most people only take the very narrow view of that as being physically devestating techniques against violent assaults, but a true (and therefore, much more practical) self-defence system also includes methods of avoiding conflict, and gradiated physical responces from simple, gentle control to pre-emptive strikes or attacks. And in this, I believe that Aikido is actually more practical (in it's complete sense) than most other arts, such as karate, BJJ, MMA etc. But each to their own...

 

[Kumbajah]

the elephant in the room as far as aikido is no one seems prepared to do full contact sparring using aikido, it dosnt have to be against a skilled fighter just somone coming full on and someone using aikido..

Do you understand there is a difference between Fighting, sport application (sparring) and self defense?

Fighting is willingly doing more violence to someone before they can do it to you, Sport is trying to best someone using a predetermined set of techniques and rules, Self defense is simply getting away from danger.