Aikido hate

[drop bear]

Ok While I was hunting around I found this. Now this move actually works. But for some reason the partner is still throwing himself into the deck. And there is no risk to a limb really at all here.

Am I just looking at bad aikido here?

 

[jobo]

Ok While I was hunting around I found this. Now this move actually works. But for some reason the partner is still throwing himself into the deck. And there is no risk to a limb really at all here.

Am I just looking at bad aikido here?

maybe, its hard to tell how much is techneque and how much is compliance for demo purpose's. It's certainly true that once you get someone flat footed and leaning back 10 degrees they will fall with slight push unless they a) recover their feet or b) grab hold of you. The guy isn't trying not to fall, but that doesn't mean he wouldnt fall anyway. And once a fall is on the cards, its better to put yourself down in a controlled manner,than go down like a sack of spuds

 

[Spinedoc]

maybe, its hard to tell how much is techneque and how much is compliance for demo purpose's. It's certainly true that once you get someone flat footed and leaning back 10 degrees they will fall with slight push unless they a) recover their feet or b) grab hold of you. The guy isn't trying not to fall, but that doesn't mean he wouldnt fall anyway. And once a fall is on the cards, its better to put yourself down in a controlled manner,than go down like a sack of spuds

Yep, and also, your job as uke is to deliver a sincere attack, and then be neutral....don't resist, don't be a dick, just be neutral, allow nage to find where your balance is, and then when you reach the tipping point, take the fall.

 

[Spinedoc]

Ok While I was hunting around I found this. Now this move actually works. But for some reason the partner is still throwing himself into the deck. And there is no risk to a limb really at all here.

Am I just looking at bad aikido here?

His balance is gone...if you watch, he's bending backwards to the point where he can't bend anymore...some people aren't flexible. Then, nage, moves into the space, once you no longer have your balance, as uke, the only thing you can do is fall and try and protect yourself. I know people who can bend backwards WAY, WAY more than this, and I know some who can't even bend this far.....each person is different.

 

[Spinedoc]

The catching punches out of thin air I dont think works very well. And is the main entry for these bloody things.

No one "catches punches out of thin air"...that's ridiculous. In Aikido, we blend, if you launch a punch at me, I'm going to get out of the way first....likely w a tenkan movement. I'm not going to try and "catch" the punch, I will let my hand slide down your arm as you are withdrawing and only then execute the technique.....Similar to this...

Watch the slo mo...his hand slides on top of ukes forearm as he tenkans, and then slides into the proper position....he's not catching the actual punch..that's a good way to get your hand broken...

 

[jobo]

No one "catches punches out of thin air"..
...

I do ! Or at least have

 

[hoshin1600]

No one "catches punches out of thin air"...that's ridiculous. In Aikido, we blend, if you launch a punch at me, I'm going to get out of the way first....likely w a tenkan movement. I'm not going to try and "catch" the punch, I will let my hand slide down your arm as you are withdrawing and only then execute the technique.....Similar to this...

Watch the slo mo...his hand slides on top of ukes forearm as he tenkans, and then slides into the proper position....he's not catching the actual punch..that's a good way to get your hand broken...

i agree with both view points. you cannot capture a proper punch. this is something that aikido gets a lot of flack for and its deserved at times and other times no. the attack in the video is over extended and hangs out there in space. a proper punch should snap back to a guard position, making most aikido technique impossible.
that being said this is not really a punch its mune-tsuki. it represents a lunging action which would more closely resemble a knife thrust then a punch.
if on the street an assailant thrust a knife in that manner at an aikidoka then the technique would work, ...problem...its not often assailants attack like that.

 

[TSDTexan]

i agree with both view points. you cannot capture a proper punch. this is something that aikido gets a lot of flack for and its deserved at times and other times no. the attack in the video is over extended and hangs out there in space. a proper punch should snap back to a guard position, making most aikido technique impossible.
that being said this is not really a punch its mune-tsuki. it represents a lunging action which would more closely resemble a knife thrust then a punch.
if on the street an assailant thrust a knife in that manner at an aikidoka then the technique would work, ...problem...its not often assailants attack like that.

The idea is continually drilling until muscle memory is developed.

Then when the attack happens, the brain reacts to the threat before conscious thought happens.

 

[drop bear]

The idea is continually drilling until muscle memory is developed.

Then when the attack happens, the brain reacts to the threat before conscious thought happens.

You want to set it up with a reasonable chance of working before you drill it though.

 

[drop bear]

No one "catches punches out of thin air"...that's ridiculous. In Aikido, we blend, if you launch a punch at me, I'm going to get out of the way first....likely w a tenkan movement. I'm not going to try and "catch" the punch, I will let my hand slide down your arm as you are withdrawing and only then execute the technique.....Similar to this...

Watch the slo mo...his hand slides on top of ukes forearm as he tenkans, and then slides into the proper position....he's not catching the actual punch..that's a good way to get your hand broken...

That is what I mean when I say catch a punch out of mid air. I mean you need to stop 4 a second not one in 2seconds.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ok While I was hunting around I found this. Now this move actually works. But for some reason the partner is still throwing himself into the deck. And there is no risk to a limb really at all here.

Am I just looking at bad aikido here?

At 0.17, his opponent can use "reverse head lock (guillotine)", or just strike left elbow on him. The issue is his opponent's left elbow joint is free. He should use his right palm to push on his opponent's left elbow joint.

 

[Hanzou]

Set up.

I have mentioned this before but. I have done a lot of wrist locks on guys but I set them up with good clinch work and hand fighting.

The catching punches out of thin air I dont think works very well. And is the main entry for these bloody things.

People are just hitting these locks backwards. Again for me it is simp,e. If I attack you your arm isnt going anywhere near as fast as if you are attacking me.

Roy Dean is a really good example of what I'm talking about. He's a high level Bjj practitioner who incorporates Aikido into his personal style. If you ever see him fight or roll he's doing about 95% Bjj and 5% Aikido. I think those amazing Aikidoka from the early days (like Gozo Shioda and Koichi Tohei)
were probably doing 95% Judo and 5% Aikido.

Nothing against Aikido, but it really appears to be a capstone to decades of training in something else.

 

[drop bear]

At 0.17, his opponent can use "reverse head lock (guillotine)", or just strike left elbow on him. The issue is his opponent's left elbow joint is free. He should use his right palm to push on his opponent's left elbow joint.

You defend that with good structure. If your head is up and close to their arm you really don't get caught.

 

[drop bear]

Roy Dean is a really good example of what I'm talking about. He's a high level Bjj practitioner who incorporates Aikido into his personal style. If you ever see him fight or roll he's doing about 95% Bjj and 5% Aikido. I think those amazing Aikidoka from the early days (like Gozo Shioda and Koichi Tohei)
were probably doing 95% Judo and 5% Aikido.

Nothing against Aikido, but it really appears to be a capstone to decades of training in something else.

Yeah. There is nothing really stopping Aikido being good though. I think it is more of a want to.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You defend that with good structure. If your head is up and close to their arm you really don't get caught.

When I enter, I like to put my hand on my opponent's leading elbow joint. It's just for safety reason. I don't like to take chance. When I dodge my head under my opponent's hook punch (or hay-maker), I'll do the same.

 

[jobo]

i agree with both view points. you cannot capture a proper punch. this is something that aikido gets a lot of flack for and its deserved at times and other times no. the attack in the video is over extended and hangs out there in space. a proper punch should snap back to a guard position, making most aikido technique impossible.
that being said this is not really a punch its mune-tsuki. it represents a lunging action which would more closely resemble a knife thrust then a punch.
if on the street an assailant thrust a knife in that manner at an aikidoka then the technique would work, ...problem...its not often assailants attack like that.

yes you can , I've done it dozens of times, if you can catch a fly, you can catch a punch, flys are faster

 

[TSDTexan]

yes you can , I've done it dozens of times, if you can catch a fly, you can catch a punch, flys are faster

The average professional heavy weight boxer hits at between 1,200 to 1,700 pounds per square inch, or psi. Legendary boxer Mike Tyson had a punch that was measured at 1,800 psi, or almost one ton of force per square inch.

I know golden gloves guys who have metered higher.

Catching a punch is foolishness imo.
But whatever floats your goat.

 

[jobo]

The average professional heavy weight boxer hits at between 1,200 to 1,700 pounds per square inch, or psi. Legendary boxer Mike Tyson had a punch that was measured at 1,800 psi, or almost one ton of force per square inch.

I know golden gloves guys who have metered higher.

Catching a punch is foolishness imo.
But whatever floats your goat.

I think your mixing Mr Tyson up with the hulk. That would mean he could punch through steel. Which if true makes you wonder why he had to resort to bitting

out of interest which fantasy site did you get these figures off

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Catching a punch is foolishness imo.

I will never try to catch a punch in fighting. But I do try to catch a punch in training. If I can catch a punch when my opponent's arm is moving, I can grab his wrist when his arm is not moving.

 

[CB Jones]

I think your mixing Mr Tyson up with the hulk. That would mean he could punch through steel. Which if true makes you wonder why he had to resort to bitting

out of interest which fantasy site did you get these figures off

Those are numbers that have been reported. 1800 psi is a lot, but maybe possible in a controlled test...not an actual fight..

If you figure Tyson's fist's striking area is 2 square inches then he is producing roughly 900 pounds of force with his punch.