Aikido has no reason to prove itself!

[Cynik75]

Why don’t you go look yourself lol...I just gave you examples of a real fight they’ve had lol...they work in security, bouncers, I believe Lenny Sly is in security

Um they make their stuff work? I’ve only said that 20 times

And I have lazers in my eyes. This is true, because I say so.
One video of Lenny from WarrorTV smashing medium level amateur full contact sportsman would shut people like me up.

 

[Steve]

that makes no sense, just more goal post moving

In what way am I moving goal posts?

How are they better then Rokas? Um they make their stuff work? I’ve only said that 20 times

So, is it Rokas or is it the Aikido that Rokas learned and the system in which Rokas learned it? I don't see this as a personality driven discussion.

But I am trying to figure out what you mean. Is there something unique about the brand of Aikido that these guys you like are promoting that makes it different?

is Rokas some big name in martial arts that I should care what he says?

I'd never heard of him before these threads. But then again, I didn't know Idris Elba's body double taught Aikido, either.

I mean instead of trying it yourself you want to argue over what some guy says then claim it’s a useless art...thats Tribal on your part not open minded

I think I'd enjoy Aikido and have no problems with it or anyone who trains in it. But I don't think I'd expect to learn how to fight by doing it. Sorry if I missed it, but do you train Aikido? This seems to be winding you up a little.

 

[Mider]

This is where a discussion like this usually breaks down into tribes arguing about YouTube videos and proof. Hopefully we can skip that part.

Let's say we accept that Aikido works pretty well for bouncers or people who work security. Absent evidence to the contrary, I have no reason to believe a bouncer who says that he uses Aikido techniques all the time in his job. He learned techniques and he applies them in a context.

The question then becomes, are his skills and abilities transferrable? I'd say yes, provided that his students are also bouncers or security. I mean, if you're a bouncer teaching other bouncers how to use technique specific to that context, it makes perfect sense. You have experience and you're sharing that with others who are accumulating their own experience.

But is it transferrable to someone who isn't a bouncer? Well now... that's a different story completely. That's where things start to get squirrelly.

And I have lazers in my eyes. This is true, because I say so.
One video of Lenny from WarrorTV smashing medium level amateur full contact sportsman would shut people like me up.

Ok, I don’t think there’s any point in continuing this discussion, you guys seem to want to argue more then actually find out for yourself

Laters

 

[Steve]

Ok, I don’t think there’s any point in continuing this discussion, you guys seem to want to argue more then actually find out for yourself

Laters

 

[Mider]

And I’m sure you feel bad *** posting that, you can tell your friends how bad *** you are arguing online lol

 

[Steve]

And I’m sure you feel bad *** posting that, you can tell your friends how bad *** you are arguing online lol

I was really just trying to be a little funny... lighten the mood a little. I thought we were having a friendly discussion. Didn't mean to rile you up.

If you would like to respond to the actual posts, I'd be happy to chat with you further. Or not. It's okay either way.

But either way, I sincerely hope you have a good day. Nothing on this forum is important enough to ruin your mood.

 

[BrendanF]

Yes I do...I mean you’re acting like you’ve met every Aikidoa or been yo every aikido school...none of them spar or make it work? Oooookkk

Say what? Can you explain what you mean by that? Where or how do I give that impression? That's twice you've completely missed what I was saying.

To repeat, I was simply pointing out that people do not need to have the same priorities or standards that Drop Bear declared they should.

Seems like you need to return to school and brush up on your reading comprehension.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

A: Why do you like the long fist system?
B: Because it helps me to build up strong foundation.

A: Why do you like the Baji system?
C: Because it helps me to build up power generation.

A: Why do you like the praying mantis system?
D: Because it helps me to build up speed generation.

A: Why do you like the Chinese wrestling system?
E: Because it helps me to build up throwing skill.

A: Why do you like Aikido?
F: Because it's different, more interest, and more fun.

I will expect similar answer from F as from B, C, D, and E.

Not everyone will have the same kinds of motivations you have. What you expect won't change why some folks are interested in other arts.

From my viewpoint, there are some things that simply take too long to be worth it from a purely practical standpoint. But I rather like them, personally, regardless. The body movement utilization in my primary art and other aiki arts (as I understand them) is on that list. There are much faster ways to learn to throw (I use some of those methods as well, as they're also part of NGA). If someone already knows those methods (from Judo, for instance), what aiki adds will take too long to look at from a competition viewpoint. It's simply not worth the time for that level of improvement. A Judo player will almost certainly get more improvement over the same period fo time from catch wrestling to get new grappling foundations.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It is the wrong way to find out. You could go to a school and not know if it works.

People train for twenty years and not know if it works.

Hence Rokus.

Which is why we might want to be able to see more universally. I'm debating the use of "should". I don't think they owe the world that. If I'm curious, I take my curiosity to an Aikido school (and have done so on multiple occasions). My opinions on the art are based mostly on those experiences. I don't see where they owe me more than that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Idk, I don’t know, I just know that in aikido there’s things that don’t focus on strength, i don’t train it, honestly I’d love training all of those if I could

It's my opinion that this is partially a misconception (by folks within the art, as well). There are things in aiki arts that focus on how to use things other than strength (which doesn't necessarily imply not using strength with them), and how to use strength differently. Keeping strength out of drills I believe was originally to force focus on other principles, so those principles could be combined with strength in application. Over time, that last part seems to have gotten lost, and the drills are seen as application.

I could be wrong on significant parts of this - I'm going mainly on what I understand from training a related art and looking at the progression of Aikido.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Exactly, I mean you learn everything in BJJ in judo that doesn’t mean both are great

Just a small note on this. In Judo (at the time), you'd have learned everything that formed the original basis of BJJ. The two have diverged quite a bit since them. Some of that material is far less prominent in most Judo schools, from what I hear (I haven't trained Judo in decades), and BJJ has moved on in a lot of ways.

 

[drop bear]

Which is why we might want to be able to see more universally. I'm debating the use of "should". I don't think they owe the world that. If I'm curious, I take my curiosity to an Aikido school (and have done so on multiple occasions). My opinions on the art are based mostly on those experiences. I don't see where they owe me more than that.

But then they get what they get.

Crystal healing doesn't owe me anything either. But I am not just going to support the idea that it works.

Or that they are like doctors but with different motivations.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And I have lazers in my eyes. This is true, because I say so.
One video of Lenny from WarrorTV smashing medium level amateur full contact sportsman would shut people like me up.

Except that's not the context he uses it in, and not a claim I'm aware he has ever made. Most of the bouncers and prison guards I've trained with never competed in anything (a few did, back in the days of "tough man" contests).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But then they get what they get.

Yes.

Crystal healing doesn't owe me anything either. But I am not just going to support the idea that it works.

Agreed.

Or that they are like doctors but with different motivations.

I'm not sure where that came from, nor how it's analogous to anything in this discussion.

 

[Steve]

Except that's not the context he uses it in, and not a claim I'm aware he has ever made. Most of the bouncers and prison guards I've trained with never competed in anything (a few did, back in the days of "tough man" contests).

I work in Seattle, and can tell you that there are a lot of software developers who do not train in any martial art. And you know what? They do just fine, for the most part... never miss those martial skills that they don't have. Should they ever need them, though, they might wish they had trained and competed in MMA (or some other competitive style). And I can tell you that the converse is true, as well. Those software developers who do train in MMA, BJJ, boxing, etc, are much better prepared than those who do not.

Experience is cumulative, and it's about logging hours doing things. In the same way as above, a bouncer that competes will benefit from the competition. Or said another way, a bouncer, who also trains and competes in MMA will have a more well rounded and reliable skillset than one who doesn't. A bouncer that competes will benefit from the competition.

 

[Steve]

I'm not sure where that came from, nor how it's analogous to anything in this discussion.

People who promote healing crystals sell a questionable product and try to promote themselves as health care gurus. In the same way that some martial arts experts do the same with fighting skills. It's a very straightforward analogy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I work in Seattle, and can tell you that there are a lot of software developers who do not train in any martial art. And you know what? They do just fine, for the most part... never miss those martial skills that they don't have. Should they ever need them, though, they might wish they had trained and competed in MMA (or some other competitive style). And I can tell you that the converse is true, as well. Those software developers who do train in MMA, BJJ, boxing, etc, are much better prepared than those who do not.

Experience is cumulative, and it's about logging hours doing things. In the same way as above, a bouncer that competes will benefit from the competition. Or said another way, a bouncer, who also trains and competes in MMA will have a more well rounded and reliable skillset than one who doesn't. A bouncer that competes will benefit from the competition.

Agreed, on all points. My point was simply that folks who are training for work purposes aren't necessarily interested in competition. It might benefit them, but like everyone they're going to make decisions based upon time commitment (among other things).

Given a solid trianing environment with sufficient live resistance, I expect someone who uses the skills regularly on the job would get marginal improvement with a bit of competition. Additional training for the competition would have more benefit than the actual competition, but is more time commitment.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

People who promote healing crystals sell a questionable product and try to promote themselves as health care gurus. In the same way that some martial arts experts do the same with fighting skills. It's a very straightforward analogy.

Perhaps.

 

[Steve]

Perhaps.

You may not agree, but I at least hope you now understand where it came from and how it is analogous and relevant to the discussion.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

Is Aikido marketed as a self defense? If yes, then it does have reason to prove itself. If no, then it has no reason to do so.