age and the martial arts

[Tez3]

Are we considering mid-late 30s old now?

Doing martial arts makes your joints old.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Doing martial arts makes your joints old.

There are martial arts designed to make your joints feel young again.

It sucks to be an aging martial artist today, but imagine each prior century, one at a time.

Go back at least a few and you'll find that martial artists figured this out a long time ago and created new arts to mitigate the damage.

 

[geezer]

How do you blend WC and Wushu together?

- WC is southern CMA.
- Wushu is nothern CMA.

Reading through this thread I get the impression that Yanli believes that wushu is circular and flowing whereas Wing Chun is linear and lacks fluid transitions. So when he talks about combining Wushu and Wing Chun he means that he is adding the missing fluidity back into Wing Chun.

If that is what he is saying, IMO he is entirely wrong both in his understanding of what wushu is, and in believing that Wing Chun lacks circular flowing movement and transitions.

In my experience WC is quite fluid and does make extensive use of circular and rotational movement ...but unlike performance oriented wushu, WC's movements are extremely compact, perhaps to the point of being visually and aesthetically unappealing to some.

Now, to get to your question: How do you blend northern Wushu with southern WC, I don't know anybody more qualified than you to discuss that, since You have studied both!

So, what's your opinion, John?

 

[geezer]

It sucks to be an aging martial artist today, but imagine each prior century, one at a time.
...Go back at least a few and you'll find that martial artists figured this out a long time ago and created new arts to mitigate the damage.

If I remember back a few centuries, I didn't worry about my joints so much then, and in spite of having a naturally stiff-jointed body type I achieved reasonably good flexibility.

It's really only been in this century and the latter part of the previous one that my joint issues have become a serious problem. How about you?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

If I remember back a few centuries, I didn't worry about my joints so much then, and in spite of having a naturally stiff-jointed body type I achieved reasonably good flexibility.

It's really only been in this century and the latter part of the previous one that my joint issues have become a serious problem. How about you?

I never had any arthritis at all during the 16th through 19th centuries.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Now, to get to your question: How do you blend northern Wushu with southern WC, I don't know anybody more qualified than you to discuss that, since You have studied both!

So, what's your opinion, John?

Old MA saying said, "If you are used to open, you are not used to close. If you are used to close, you are not used to open."

The day when a long fist guy starts to train the praying mantis system, his long fist large circle (for maximum stretching and maximum power) will become praying mantis small circle (for maximum speed).

IMO, WC is similar to the praying mantis system that both emphasizes on speed. Instead of having the long fist mindset that when you train form, you should stretch yourself to the maximum, you should think about the maximum speed that you try to achieve (such as the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line, or small circle).

So the northern CMA training mind set

- stretch to the maximum.
- maximum power generation.

should be combined with the southern CMA training mind set

- small circle is faster that large circle.
- if you want to have fast striking combo, your body should not be in a straight line.

This can cause confusion to beginners. It's like you have 2 teachers that teacher A tells you to do this:

and teacher B tells you to do this:

 

[drop bear]

Old MA saying said, "If you are used to open, you are not used to close. If you are used to close, you are not used to open."

The day when a long fist guy starts to train the praying mantis system, his long fist large circle (for maximum stretching and maximum power) will become praying mantis small circle (for maximum speed).

IMO, WC is similar to the praying mantis system that both emphasizes on speed. Instead of having the long fist mindset that when you train form, you should stretch yourself to the maximum, you should think about the maximum speed that you try to achieve (such as the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line, or small circle).

So the northern CMA training mind set

- stretch to the maximum.
- maximum power generation.

should be combined with the southern CMA training mind set

- small circle is faster that large circle.
- if you want to have fast striking combo, your body should not be in a straight line.

This can cause confusion to beginners. It's like you have 2 teachers that teacher A tells you to do this:

and teacher B tells you to do this:

It is the artificial categories that is causing the problem though. Not the movements themselves.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Doing martial arts makes your joints old.

Truer words have never been spoken. I had the joints of a 50 year old by the time i hit 21

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There are martial arts designed to make your joints feel young again.

It sucks to be an aging martial artist today, but imagine each prior century, one at a time.

Go back at least a few and you'll find that martial artists figured this out a long time ago and created new arts to mitigate the damage.

A few centuries ago, few people lived to be the age most of us consider "old" today.

 

[geezer]

It is the artificial categories that is causing the problem though. Not the movements themselves.

I think it's more than just the "artificial categories" since northern long-bridge and southern short-bridge are so different in stance, range, power generation and so forth that it would be quite hard to begin training both at the same time and have much progress.

A more experienced martial artist who has a deep grasp of one of the systems might be able to train the other approach and look beyond the apparent contradictions to find the complementary aspects of each.

That's assuming they aren't close minded. A lot of people are.

Hey want to see where even WC has long-bridge techniques? Check out this:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It is the artificial categories that is causing the problem though. Not the movements themselves.

During the beginning training stage, you want to develop foundation. The northern CMA foundation and the southern CMA foundation are different.

 

[Oily Dragon]

How about you?

A few centuries ago, few people lived to be the age most of us consider "old" today.

You will know a true martial artist by their injury history.

The longer the history, more injuries.

Still, healing methods have been a critical part of some MA for at more than 500 years. People still lived to be centurions long ago, and a lot of them were hardy people by training, not by chance.

Recovery and martial arts kind of go hand in hand, and if they don't, it's suspicious.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Truer words have never been spoken. I had the joints of a 50 year old by the time i hit 21

Nobody listens to their body at 21, that's part of the problem with 50 year olds today.

A little tiger balm goes a long way.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Pehlwani kushti comes to mind. The modern champ of that art lived to be 82.

The Great Gama. Bruce Lee wrote about him.

Reminds me of Dan Severn.

 

[_Simon_]

Reading through this thread I get the impression that Yanli believes that wushu is circular and flowing whereas Wing Chun is linear and lacks fluid transitions. So when he talks about combining Wushu and Wing Chun he means that he is adding the missing fluidity back into Wing Chun.

If that is what he is saying, IMO he is entirely wrong both in his understanding of what wushu is, and in believing that Wing Chun lacks circular flowing movement and transitions.

In my experience WC is quite fluid and does make extensive use of circular and rotational movement ...but unlike performance oriented wushu, WC's movements are extremely compact, perhaps to the point of being visually and aesthetically unappealing to some.

Now, to get to your question: How do you blend northern Wushu with southern WC, I don't know anybody more qualified than you to discuss that, since You have studied both!

So, what's your opinion, John?

Interesting observation! This even parallels in the karate world, many styles were born through combining styles; many styles combined Shotokan and Goju ryu (the former generally known for being linear, dynamic, straight line; the latter being generally known as more fluid, circular, balance of hard and soft etc). Whether it is truly a successful blend I'm not sure! The styles themselves survived, but whether the blend is efficient and successful is another thing... Does using forms/kata from both sides truly create a blended art? Or is it more in exploring, training and instilling principles from both sides? Just random musings!

 

[Flying Crane]

Consistency in your foundation and training methodology is important. If you are blending material that requires different foundation and results in an inconsistent methodology, then you have problems.

People always want to add things from other styles and mix things together, but they often neglect to consider what things should NOT be added.

 

[Yanli]

Reading through this thread I get the impression that Yanli believes that wushu is circular and flowing whereas Wing Chun is linear and lacks fluid transitions. So when he talks about combining Wushu and Wing Chun he means that he is adding the missing fluidity back into Wing Chun.

If that is what he is saying, IMO he is entirely wrong both in his understanding of what wushu is, and in believing that Wing Chun lacks circular flowing movement and transitions.

In my experience WC is quite fluid and does make extensive use of circular and rotational movement ...but unlike performance oriented wushu, WC's movements are extremely compact, perhaps to the point of being visually and aesthetically unappealing to some.

Now, to get to your question: How do you blend northern Wushu with southern WC, I don't know anybody more qualified than you to discuss that, since You have studied both!

So, what's your opinion, John?

I did not say that WC does not have circler motion, or that I combine Wushu to get the circler motion. I am basically stating that Wushu helps students to learn the grace and speed to combine with WC, the Wushu provides them a form that they can better comprehend on how to incorporate with WC. I am not sure where exactly I stated anything that gave you the impression you got?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

During the beginning training stage, you want to develop foundation. The northern CMA foundation and the southern CMA foundation are different.

These concepts can be taught in combination, it is analogous to a recipe. Correctly combined, the sum can be greater than the parts. I don’t disagree that this can be a more difficult training, but the results can also be worth the effort. Tai Chi Chuan legs and Southern Gung fu arms is an example.

 

[Callen]

I am basically stating that Wushu helps students to learn the grace and speed to combine with WC, the Wushu provides them a form that they can better comprehend on how to incorporate with WC

Your statement is a bit difficult to follow, can you be more specific explaining your approach? Wushu (武術) literally means “martial art”. What exact parts (techniques, actions, forms, etc…) of wushu are you incorporating to help your students better understand Wing Chun? Also, which Wing Chun lineage or style are you teaching?

More importantly, how exactly does the wushu that you are teaching uniquely benefit the Wing Chun system in a way that the actual Wing Chun curriculum cannot?

 

[OLD DOG NEW TRICKS]

I was taught old school, if I did something wrong, I was whipped with a stick, if the teacher felt like it, he would whip me again. Teachers can not get away with that anymore, todays students do not realize how easy they have it, and that is not helping them to the fullest. When I demonstrate a move on a student, I hit them hard enough to see I made a good contact, but they still complain when I only hit them just hard enough. I tell them, "if you can not handle me hitting you, you have already lost the fight with a real opponent". Many students can not get it trough their head that they need to be able to take a strike as importantly as being able to fight.

Hello again, you are on the money with the soft students. They truly need to experience the physical aspects of being lightly hit. I had a hard time with my younger students (12 and up) for the same reason. They really are not able to mentally handle being struck without interrupting thier innocent as a child. I waited for them to show the desire to go to the next step.