age and the martial arts

[Wing Woo Gar]

I like how idealistic you are, when you're my age though you'll be looking forward to getting your knee and hip replacements regardless.

Ok cards on table. How old are you two? Im 50.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I'm all for bionics.

If I could, I'd replace about half of me.

Cards on table how old are you? I’m 50,

 

[Dirty Dog]

Honestly, I learned TKD, I actually looked at Muy Thai kicks, TKD round house require more pivot(call it rotation if you want). I really like the MT side kick that doesn't require as much hip rotation and doesn't pick up the knee as high as TKD. I would rather do MT because TKD is too hard on the back with all the rotations. If I do MT, I might not have injure my back as bad.

A supposition totally without basis. Do you have ANY evidence that MT practitioners have less back injuries than TKD?

TKD requires a person to have a lot of flexibility,

No, it does not.

I am the kind that is not too flexible(can be a lot worst too). When I got to the point of doing spin kick to the head, that's when I hurt my back. Good thing of my school was the teacher was really not too straight, he show the correct way, but he gave room for each individual instead of saying "NO, you are wrong, you have to do it this way!!". I remember there was one guy, he is not flexible, he resorted to kick side kick with knee low and literally kick upward on the side kick. BUT, do NOT catch one of his side kick, you'll go flying.

Do you really not see how you're contradicting yourself? You say that flexibility is required for TKD and then follow up with an example of someone without much flexibility who, it seems, was doing just fine.

He was good even though it's not really TKD kicks in the straight sense.

It doesn't really seem that you have enough training or experience to decide that a given kick is or is not a TKD kick.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Cards on table how old are you? I’m 50,

I'm within 10% of your age. Honest Indian.

 

[Alan0354]

A supposition totally without basis. Do you have ANY evidence that MT practitioners have less back injuries than TKD?

No, it does not.

Do you really not see how you're contradicting yourself? You say that flexibility is required for TKD and then follow up with an example of someone without much flexibility who, it seems, was doing just fine.

It doesn't really seem that you have enough training or experience to decide that a given kick is or is not a TKD kick.

I was actually agreeing with you original post!!! I shouldn't even reply!!!

I now don't know what kind of TKD you are teaching!!! You argue just to argue? I guess I just have to put you on ignore list if I can.

That's funny you don't think you need flexibility to do TKD, you must be talking about different TKD.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I was actually agreeing with you original post!!! I shouldn't even reply!!!

No, you were not. You were making inaccurate statements.

I now don't know what kind of TKD you are teaching!!! You argue just to argue? I guess I just have to put you on ignore list if I can.

That's funny you don't think you need flexibility to do TKD, you must be talking about different TKD.

I hold Dan ranks from the KKW, ITF, and MDK. None of them have a rule that demands great flexibility.
Fortunately, the instructor you mentioned clearly understands that, even if you do not.

 

[mograph]

A few centuries ago, few people lived to be the age most of us consider "old" today.

Not so sure about that. If you're basing that on average life expectancy, you know that many people were killed off before they reached old age, bringing down the average. However, it's quite likely that someone in a relatively comfortable environment, much like what we have now in the west, would have survived to an age much closer to our "old age."

Do we really live longer than our ancestors?

Current advances might just have increased the number of people who can live to their max.

 

[Alan0354]

No, you were not. You were making inaccurate statements.

I hold Dan ranks from the KKW, ITF, and MDK. None of them have a rule that demands great flexibility.
Fortunately, the instructor you mentioned clearly understands that, even if you do not.

Yes, I did agree with you on the original post, read back. I was joking to agree with you in the very first paragraph.

Yes, you can LEARN and get quite good in TKD without flexibility, BUT TKD is famous for their high kicks, if you are not flexible, there is a ceiling on how far you can go. Just look on youtube on demos and even Olympics competition, people that get up to that level are all flexible to kick to the head.

Of cause, instructors never demand that so people can learn and be reasonably good at the art. Like for people HAVE to have good ears to be good in playing music. Sure, even people that don't have good ears can learn and get up to a certain level. BUT if you don't have good ears, you are NOT going to get to high level. There is a ceiling. I know, I was a pro musician and I had a lot of students.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yes, you can LEARN and get quite good in TKD without flexibility,

See? Being correct isn't that difficult.

BUT TKD is famous for their high kicks,

So what? You said a high degree of flexibility is required. It's not.

if you are not flexible, there is a ceiling on how far you can go. Just look on youtube on demos and even Olympics competition, people that get up to that level are all flexible to kick to the head.

World class athletes in pretty much ANY martial art that allows kicking will be able to kick to the head.
Again, this does nothing to support your claim that flexibility is required for TKD. Mostly because it is not.

Of cause, instructors never demand that so people can learn and be reasonably good at the art.

They don't demand it because it's not required. This is not very complicated.

Like for people HAVE to have good ears to be good in playing music. Sure, even people that don't have good ears can learn and get up to a certain level. BUT if you don't have good ears, you are NOT going to get to high level.

Mozart, Phil Collins, Evelyn Glennie, Mandy Harvey, Signmark, DeafBoyOne, Brian Wilson, Eric Clapton, Sting, Ozzy Osborne, Pete Townshend, Roger Daltry...
Seems to be a lot of world class musicians who disagree with you.

 

[Alan0354]

Mozart, Phil Collins, Evelyn Glennie, Mandy Harvey, Signmark, DeafBoyOne, Brian Wilson, Eric Clapton, Sting, Ozzy Osborne, Pete Townshend, Roger Daltry...
Seems to be a lot of world class musicians who disagree with you.

Now you are making it up, How do you know? This is my house, I know. When I taught student, 2 months, I pretty much can see how far can they go even assuming they practice very hard.

Put it in another way, if you have a show to showcase your school, would you find one that is flexible to showcase the high kicks of TKD or one that might fight better by stiff and cannot kick above the waist? Remember, this is your show for your school. This is TKD. I did spent a few years, I know my teacher would NOT put the guy that I talked about that can kick hard, but funny looking to do demonstration in a show. Because this is TKD, famous for the kicks particular high kicks.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Now you are making it up, How do you know?

Ummm.... it's not exactly secret. Every single one of those people is a world class musician who is deaf or is severely hard of hearing. You know, people you say don't exist.

This is my house, I know.

Apparently your house is burning down...

When I taught student, 2 months, I pretty much can see how far can they go even assuming they practice very hard.

Uh huh. Sure.

Put it in another way, if you have a show to showcase your school, would you find one that is flexible to showcase the high kicks of TKD or one that might fight better by stiff and cannot kick above the waist? Remember, this is your show for your school. This is TKD.

When we do demos, I say "who wants to go?" and that's who goes. Because, contrary to your stubborn inability to accept the truth, TKD does not require students (or teachers) to be made of rubber.

I did spent a few years,

So not long enough to really know what you're talking about. Got it.

I know my teacher would NOT put the guy that I talked about that can kick hard, but funny looking to do demonstration in a show.

How do you know he wouldn't? Using a demo to show that you don't have to be a world class contortionist in order to practice TKD is a good thing.

Because this is TKD, famous for the kicks particular high kicks.

Another irrelevancy that does nothing to backup your ridiculous claim. Being known for high kicks is not the same as being requiring high kicks.

TKD is also known for the Olympic ruleset. Are you now going to claim that TKD requires students to fight with their hands down?

 

[Alan0354]

Ummm.... it's not exactly secret. Every single one of those people is a world class musician who is deaf or is severely hard of hearing. You know, people you say don't exist.

Apparently your house is burning down...

Uh huh. Sure.

When we do demos, I say "who wants to go?" and that's who goes. Because, contrary to your stubborn inability to accept the truth, TKD does not require students (or teachers) to be made of rubber.

So not long enough to really know what you're talking about. Got it.

How do you know he wouldn't? Using a demo to show that you don't have to be a world class contortionist in order to practice TKD is a good thing.

Another irrelevancy that does nothing to backup your ridiculous claim. Being known for high kicks is not the same as being requiring high kicks.

TKD is also known for the Olympic ruleset. Are you now going to claim that TKD requires students to fight with their hands down?

I give up, you are the moderator, you can be rude and you are always right. Life is not equal, I don't want to be banned.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I think it is generally a mistake to say a given art is linear or circular. I also think it's a mistake to say a given art is striking or grappling. My experience is that some arts are primarily linear or circular, and some are primarily striking or grappling. None of them are purely one or the other. Taekwondo teaches circular movements, joint locks, throws, and take downs. Aikijujutsu (and it's children) teach linear movements, punching and kicking. It's more a matter of what you learn first.

Is a Front Kick linear or Circular?
From the perspective of the eyes of the kicker it is linear going outward.
From the outside observer to the right 90 degrees it has components of circular motion.

Pick another kick and change the frame of reference and looking at it in a 2 D way one can see linear and circular depending upon that frame of reference.
This always confused me, and made me wonder if they understood how the body worked and how people teach and or learn which can be different from person to person, and how to review it as an observer.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I give up, you are the moderator, you can be rude and you are always right. Life is not equal, I don't want to be banned.

Alan0354,

I just reviewed the last three pages of this thread.

I read it as you made statements that were opinion as fact.
And then proceeded to not be clear to the point I thought you had disagreed with DirtyDog and were just making things up to see how far you could get him to respond.

I mean the average life (career life) of a professional MT Fighter is 18 months to a few years (At most) - Yes there are exceptions.
Or at least those were the states I had a decade ago when I did research on that topic for myself.

To me it read and came across as MT was great and TKD was just injuries. And that without TKD your back would not be injured and that MT would not have injured your back .

That may no be what you meant, it is what I read out of your posts.

Disagree all you want with staff.
Just be willing to back your comments up with data.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not so sure about that. If you're basing that on average life expectancy, you know that many people were killed off before they reached old age, bringing down the average. However, it's quite likely that someone in a relatively comfortable environment, much like what we have now in the west, would have survived to an age much closer to our "old age."

Do we really live longer than our ancestors?

Current advances might just have increased the number of people who can live to their max.

That's why I said "few".

 

[Steve]

I'm all for bionics.

If I could, I'd replace about half of me.

As a member in good standing of the Six Million Dollar Man Bionic Action Club for over 40 years, I fully support this.

Here's the question... how much stuff do you need replaced in order to be able to call yourself a cyborg?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Ha ha, because you are not rotating your hip to the correct angle, and you knee is not at the required height......That's why you are wrong!!!!........According to him!!!


Honestly, I learned TKD, I actually looked at Muy Thai kicks, TKD round house require more pivot(call it rotation if you want). I really like the MT side kick that doesn't require as much hip rotation and doesn't pick up the knee as high as TKD. I would rather do MT because TKD is too hard on the back with all the rotations. If I do MT, I might not have injure my back as bad.

TKD requires a person to have a lot of flexibility, I am the kind that is not too flexible(can be a lot worst too). When I got to the point of doing spin kick to the head, that's when I hurt my back. Good thing of my school was the teacher was really not too straight, he show the correct way, but he gave room for each individual instead of saying "NO, you are wrong, you have to do it this way!!". I remember there was one guy, he is not flexible, he resorted to kick side kick with knee low and literally kick upward on the side kick. BUT, do NOT catch one of his side kick, you'll go flying. He was good even though it's not really TKD kicks in the straight sense.

I'm within 10% of your age. Honest Indian.

LMA

As a member in good standing of the Six Million Dollar Man Bionic Action Club for over 40 years, I fully support this.

Here's the question... how much stuff do you need replaced in order to be able to call yourself a cyborg?

good question. It would not be nice to count arms or legs in the equation. I think It would have to include some kind of brain/computer interface.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

As a member in good standing of the Six Million Dollar Man Bionic Action Club for over 40 years, I fully support this.

Here's the question... how much stuff do you need replaced in order to be able to call yourself a cyborg?

Whoa sorry, that previous post was cluttered.

 

[Oily Dragon]

As a member in good standing of the Six Million Dollar Man Bionic Action Club for over 40 years, I fully support this.

Here's the question... how much stuff do you need replaced in order to be able to call yourself a cyborg?

Maybe zero.

Bionics and cybernetic organisms are slightly different things, but many modern brainiacs are making the argument that most humans are already cybernetic, because of the convergence of humans with hand held smartphones.

I dig this theory, because there's definitely some sort of psychic link between people and their phones. Can't put em down, we get anxiety when we can't find ours, and in a lot of ways they are constantly looping feedback, even to the point of altering physical senses and consiousness.

Honestly it's the most fascinating subject next to Kung Fu and gourmet cooking for me. How and when did the wall between man and machine break down? We are now a globe of computer dependent humans, but not in the same way of even 20 years ago. Today it's a far more intimate pairing. Good thing? Bad? Probably a lot of both.

Keep in mind, I'm just a cook who reads a lot.

 

[mograph]

That's why I said "few".

Got it, thanks.