Active Shooter Teenager Self Defense

[Buka]

I went to High School. Liked it so much I stayed an extra year! Later in life I worked in High Schools during troubled times. Still later, we used closed down schools in law enforcement training, entering, clearing and searching of buildings and all that. And the High School I attended had metal detectors all the way back in the mid seventies.

One thing I know for sure - there ain't nobody, and I mean NOBODY, who knows more about physically getting in and out of their own high school, especially the sneaking back in without getting caught than High School boys.

If you want to make High Schools more secure against intruders - involve the kids who go to those high schools. Not the Dean's List kids, but the....you know the ones. And involve them at the end of their senior year, when they won't mind sharing all their secrets, it's down time anyway. Nobody knows more about high school buildings than the teenage boys who go there.

 

[drop bear]

Hey guys. I have like 5 minutes to post something, but I appreciate the discussion.

My thoughts, building on what I was thinking before, and after reading the comments, are that the real key here is preventative. Once an event is occurring, the cards are stacked in the favor of the person who is armed. Honestly, some of this is what I teach new supervisors to do. We're not Bruce Willis types, but we are responsible for the safety of our employees.

So, things that kids can do before an event has occurred

1: Give some thought to what you would do if something happens. Think about where the exits are, and visualize some "what if" scenarios.
2: Take care of your friends, treat people well, and don't be a bully. Sometimes, the victims in these events are completely random. Sometimes, they are bullies (or perceived bullies) and are the primary targets.
3: Report suspicious behavior and understand that this isn't ratting out your peers.
4: Related to 2 above (and this might be hard), but don't stigmatize mental illness, and don't dismiss drug or alcohol abuse as benign.
5: Exercise and mind your fitness.

If something is occurring, I honestly can't think of anything better than to run away, if possible, and find cover if not. The only thing I might add is related to 1, which is to be decisive. If you're going to run, run like hell. If you're going to fight, fight like hell. Don't stop.

I'll just end by saying that I agree that the causes and possible solutions to this situation are outside the bounds of this discussion. I think there's value in discussing the situation as it is.

 

[drop bear]

Stats on CPR aren't all that encouraging. The gist of what I've read on the subject indicates that it's not often used, and seldom effective even when someone receives it. Better than nothing, though, I guess.

I think some basic first aid is reasonable, but I'm not confident that even CPR certification will create people competent to administer CPR in a crisis.

CPR. you are dealing with dead people. You basically cant make the situation worse.

Combat carries?

 

[Steve]

CPR. you are dealing with dead people. You basically cant make the situation worse.

Combat carries?

Saw a video of Wil Willis, the host of Forged in Fire (an awesome game show), doing this stuff.

Quick aside, but Wil Willis would be an excellent jits coach. His break down of technique is excellent.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Stats on CPR aren't all that encouraging. The gist of what I've read on the subject indicates that it's not often used, and seldom effective even when someone receives it. Better than nothing, though, I guess.

That's a fair summary of CPR...

I think some basic first aid is reasonable, but I'm not confident that even CPR certification will create people competent to administer CPR in a crisis.

In the context of an active shooter, CPR is useless. If someone needs CPR after being shot, it likely means you're compressing an empty heart.

 

[Steve]

So, where did we end up on this? What advice should I give my 13 year old? Serious question, and not interested in politics. Let's just accept that guns are ubiquitous and exceedingly easy for anyone who wants one to legally acquire. That is reality. So, what is to be done?

Bullet proof backpacks? Might help in an emergency, but may also have long term emotional or mental impacts on kids.

‘It's a knee-jerk reaction:’ Experts not sold on bulletproof backpacks

Considering a "bulletproof backpack" for you kid? We put them to the test.

www.king5.com

Arm the teachers? Though in Uvalde, the armed staffer didn't stop the bad guy from entering the school. Credible opinions on this are mixed (being very generous)

Texas teachers union survey finds that school employees don’t want to be armed

The survey, conducted by Texas American Federation of Teachers, comes two weeks after the Uvalde school shooting as Republicans call for more school employees to be armed.

www.texastribune.org

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/21533687211038950

Hire more cops to guard the entrances?

The Prevalence and the Price of Police in Schools

Since the 1900s, U.S. public schools have employed a growing number of school resource officers (SROs) – defined here as sworn law enforcement officials. In ...

education.uconn.edu

Send kids to mandatory krav maga classes?

If you have the means, I think the most effective solution is to move to pretty much any other country, but that's impractical for most. So, really... as discussions once again swirl around following another in an endless stream of active shooter situations in a school, most are throwing their hands in the air and saying, "Why does this keep happening? Nothing can be done." Is that true? We just accept that each year, some kids die from cancer, some die from accidents, and some will die from active shooter situations. Just a fact of life?

And as I said in the OP years ago, this isn't intended to be political. Rather, I'm genuinely looking for practical suggestions.

 

[lklawson]

and not interested in politics.

Doesn't sound like you aren't.

Let's just accept that guns are ubiquitous and exceedingly easy for anyone who wants one to legally acquire. That is reality.

Not really. I didn't have to go through a background check when I bought my last car. I did when I bought my last gun.

So, what is to be done?

Bullet proof backpacks? Might help in an emergency, but may also have long term emotional or mental impacts on kids.

‘It's a knee-jerk reaction:’ Experts not sold on bulletproof backpacks

Considering a "bulletproof backpack" for you kid? We put them to the test.

www.king5.com

Long term emotional impact? The same way that wearing a helmet when biking or seatbelts when in cars causes long term mental impact. You know what kind of long term impact it will have? On their backs. Backbacks are already so heavy that their use is causing back and hip problems. Level IV rated plates aren't particularly light and are comparatively bulky. Adding the extra weight to something already over-weight is just going to lead to people not using the product.

School Backpack Weight and Children Health

Experts say a student’s backpack should only be 10 percent of the youngster’s body weight. Here are some other tips on how to lessen the load your child carries.

www.healthline.com

Arm the teachers? Though in Uvalde, the armed staffer didn't stop the bad guy from entering the school.

That was one resource officer to the 600 student population. And, apparently, like the rest of the Uvalde Police Force, he didn't actually do his job.

Credible opinions on this are mixed (being very generous)

Texas teachers union survey finds that school employees don’t want to be armed

The survey, conducted by Texas American Federation of Teachers, comes two weeks after the Uvalde school shooting as Republicans call for more school employees to be armed.

www.texastribune.org

They have a political agenda to push. The real way to tell if it's wanted or not is to see how many teachers volunteer for the training when they are given the option. Turns out that, depending on where and when, somewhere between 30 and 50% volunteer and most have to be turned away due to lack of resources; this from actual school training organizations FASTER Colorado and FASTER Ohio.

You can easily find other surveys which find the opposite.

Be careful about trusting "surveys."

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/21533687211038950

Hire more cops to guard the entrances?

The Prevalence and the Price of Police in Schools

Since the 1900s, U.S. public schools have employed a growing number of school resource officers (SROs) – defined here as sworn law enforcement officials. In ...

education.uconn.edu

So let's quote from this article:
"What is the impact of SROs on students’ safety in schools? SROs are categorically police officers and, as such, their prevalence in schools raises questions regarding the safety of children, especially children of color, children living in poverty, and immigrant children. Decades of evidence demonstrates racial and ethnic disparities in policing. Black and Latine[xlviii] communities (youth and adults) are disproportionately subject to pedestrian and vehicle stops, citations, searches, arrests, and incarceration.[xlix] In addition to the rate of police contact, the nature of police contact harms communities of color. Incidents of police violence disproportionately impact Black individuals, who are 2.3 to 5 times more likely to be killed by police than whites.[l] Native and Latine populations are also at higher risk of being killed by police.[li]"

Ah. Cops are, by nature, racist.

Send kids to mandatory krav maga classes?

Might be good for them but I doubt it would be helpful in what you are wanting to address.

What do we do? Before Columbine most schools had multiple, unguarded, unlocked entrance points where pretty much anybody who wanted to could just walk in. We learned that we needed restricted points of entry.

Before Columbine, it was assumed that armed people in a place were there for a hostage standoff so the default tactic was to go into siege mode. After, we learned that the best tactic is for the very first officer on scene, even if it was just one cop with no body armor, including the SRO, to go hunt down the armed murderer, even if it meant the cop might be in danger, because, at the very worst, it takes the murderer's attention of off their preferred victim and usually ends the attack completely.

We learned that when a troubled person makes multiple threats to attack a school to not ignore it and pretend it'll be OK.

So what do we do? We stop ignoring the lessons we've known for 30 years. We don't allow a teacher to prop open a back door so that she can go get a smoke between classes, allowing a twisted murderer to ignore ingress points. We tell SRO's that they actually do need to confront an active killer and the responding cops that they don't get to stand around outside for 75 minutes because they're afraid they might get shot at and, instead, tazing and handcuffing parents. When a troubled person makes repeated overtures that they want to attack a school, we take it seriously and don't ignore it.

Basically, we already know what to do, they just didn't do any of it in Uvalde.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Thread locked.