Active shooter self defense

[jayoliver00]

Do these $250 replicas shoot anything... like an airsoft round or simunition round? It would be pretty amateurish to train with guns that can never shoot you... how do you know that you got off line in time or at all?

Do you take these $250 replicas and cut the trigger guards off?

Dude, I would just use my real rifles b/c these things are expensive; but this was in a Lib State and right next to a Lib Art College where most of their paid members come from so I doubt that would fly.

So whether you hear real "boom" or got sprayed with water, you'd still need to fight. 1 of the main point of these drills is to get the muscle memory down. Even with your simunition rounds, you're still going to wear earplugs, are you not? So that would defeat that purpose for realism, significantly.

What's your better idea, using a water gun that looks like a 1970's lazerbeam instead? Which was what I was arguing against.

 

[jayoliver00]

1. The standard in the firearms training community is Bluegun brand
2. Most attacks are actually made with a handgun and Bluegun Glocks hover round $50-$60
3. Even Bluegun AR's are under $200 https://www.opticsplanet.com/blue-training-guns-blue-training-guns-m4-standard-carry-hand.html
4. Inert trainers do not "shoot" anything which is what was being proposed as an important part of the training recommendation when "water gun" was suggested.

They're $250 elsewhere and probably of a diff brand. But I'm glad that you're here to find me the best prices for stuff. Can you get me some prices on where to buy a Diamond Cup? Some Kung-Fu master kicked me real hard & put a dent in mine (he wasn't kidding when he said he only fought no rules & to the death).

 

[drop bear]

Airsoft guns, for me, was much the same as dummy guns, as they don't really hurt.... and you have to be careful not to break them.

The biggest "game changer" was working with simunition guns. These are real guns that fire real rounds, but the round is paint instead of lead. The gun is the same size shape and weight, and operates exactly as a gun, as it is a gun. They use a lighter spring, because the round only has a primer and a little powder... but the guns are guns... and operate as such. You get the loud bang, the ejecting brass and if you get hit, there are no questions... it HURTS and leaves a welt, even through a Judo Gi. The gun can jam if you interrupt the slide and the slide will pinch you... its a real gun... shooting non-lethal ammo.

That definitely ups the game a bit. You also get to learn who hesitates to shoot, because they don't want to hurt the other guy. Still not a "real on the street" type situation, but it is much closer than water, dummy guns or airsoft.

This is an idea of what a gas blowback gellball pistol does.

You generally know when you have been shot by one inside a certain range.

 

[lklawson]

They're $250 elsewhere and probably of a diff brand. But I'm glad that you're here to find me the best prices for stuff. Can you get me some prices on where to buy a Diamond Cup? Some Kung-Fu master kicked me real hard & put a dent in mine (he wasn't kidding when he said he only fought no rules & to the death).

Why would anyone use anything but Bluegun for their inert trainers? Bluegun is the gold standard in the firearms training community. I think they may actually have an exclusive with Glock.

 

[wab25]

Dude, I would just use my real rifles b/c these things are expensive; but this was in a Lib State and right next to a Lib Art College where most of their paid members come from so I doubt that would fly.

So whether you hear real "boom" or got sprayed with water, you'd still need to fight. 1 of the main point of these drills is to get the muscle memory down. Even with your simunition rounds, you're still going to wear earplugs, are you not? So that would defeat that purpose for realism, significantly.

What's your better idea, using a water gun that looks like a 1970's lazerbeam instead? Which was what I was arguing against.

You were calling the other guy "amatuerish" because they did not use your fancy, expensive dummy gun. Now that someone else trains with a better replica, that also shoots... you are saying you don't need the "boom." So, the shape weight and feel are important but the sound, movement, operation and actually shooting are not???

And no, we did not wear ear protection. We wore safety googles and put our Gi back on because it hurt too much getting shot in a t shirt.

I think its important to use something strong enough to wrestle with. I think its also important to train with something that actually shoots, to make sure that your assumption of being offline in time, is correct. Getting used to the sudden loud noise is a good idea as well.

Additionally, I think its a good idea to bring in trained shooters to work with them. They hang on like their life depends on keeping the gun... totally changes the drill.

But just because someone else does not buy your $250 dummy gun, doesn't mean that they are amateurish.

 

[Dirty Dog]

guess if you can't afford the $250 for the rifle, then go for the $50 handguns.

Guess if you get ripped off buying expensive fake guns, you have to rip off your students to recoup the loss. Of course, it's also possible they didn't get ripped off, but said they did to justify the their fees.

 

[wab25]

This is an idea of what a gas blowback gellball pistol does.

You generally know when you have been shot by one inside a certain range.

Here are what simunition guns are:

Note that you can convert your real gun to fire simunition:

 

[Dirty Dog]

Dude, I would just use my real rifles b/c these things are expensive;

This is the most idiotic thing I have seen suggested today.

 

[Olde Phart]

Puh-leez. Everyone let someone have the last word. Quit this "But . . . But . . . But".

 

[wab25]

Puh-leez. Everyone let someone have the last word. Quit this "But . . . But . . . But".

Okay... You can have the last word... I promise!

 

[Flying Crane]

This is the most idiotic thing I have seen suggested today.

Almost makes it tempting to take him off ignore, just to read what he said.

Almost.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Almost makes it tempting to take him off ignore, just to read what he said.

Almost.

Just a suggestion that it's ok to use real firearms for training defense against firearms.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's amateurish to train with "water guns and super soakers".

That's why good Krav gyms buy $250/ea. replicas of the real thing to feel the sense of fighting for the weapon; not toy water guns that break apart and can cut students after a few weeks.

Many of us are amateurs (or at least very poorly paid professionals). If the tool works to improve training, who cares if it's a water gun?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I was obviously talking about the rifles, but it seems that we're going to be trying real hard today right; so I better type like I'm under oath in a court of law or something, right?

Maybe just type to communicate, rather than to mock.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Dude, I would just use my real rifles b/c these things are expensive; but this was in a Lib State and right next to a Lib Art College where most of their paid members come from so I doubt that would fly.

So whether you hear real "boom" or got sprayed with water, you'd still need to fight. 1 of the main point of these drills is to get the muscle memory down. Even with your simunition rounds, you're still going to wear earplugs, are you not? So that would defeat that purpose for realism, significantly.

What's your better idea, using a water gun that looks like a 1970's lazerbeam instead? Which was what I was arguing against.

I'd call a fast "nope" on that. No live firearms in training. Simunitions-adapted weapons are incapable of chambering a live round, and even then I would require a lot of double-checking, since the adapter is what precludes the live ammo.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ah, nevermind.

 

[wab25]

Maybe for him it is a good idea and we should encourage the practice and be supportive.

I get that this was meant as a joke... but this type of sentiment should never be expressed towards other people, even on the internet, even if we very much disagree with what they say, even if they are annoying.

I would hate to be the last straw, when something goes wrong... I would hate to be any of the straws for that matter... we always blame the last straw, but its the cumulation of straws that did it.

 

[Rich Parsons]

That's amateurish to train with "water guns and super soakers".

That's why good Krav gyms buy $250/ea. replicas of the real thing to feel the sense of fighting for the weapon; not toy water guns that break apart and can cut students after a few weeks.

If one can not Get WET from a slow Squirt gun, then yes invest in better tools .

I have found that just getting the cheap squirt guns and doing a few tests on techniques and people begin to understand the "risks".

 

[Flying Crane]

I get that this was meant as a joke... but this type of sentiment should never be expressed towards other people, even on the internet, even if we very much disagree with what they say, even if they are annoying.

I would hate to be the last straw, when something goes wrong... I would hate to be any of the straws for that matter... we always blame the last straw, but its the cumulation of straws that did it.

Yeah, probably right. I edited my post.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Many of us are amateurs (or at least very poorly paid professionals). If the tool works to improve training, who cares if it's a water gun?

If you cannot beat a water gun, then one really needs to think about their technique.