A little research - What do you see when your opponent drops their high guard?

[JowGaWolf]

I'm curious to know what others see when their opponent drops their guard.

If you are facing an opponent and they drop their guard, do you see that they are open or do you see where the hand drops.

There is no right or wrong answer to this. I'm more curious if most people focus on the open shot at the face or if most are also tracking where the hand is going. I think for me. I pay more attention to the open face and I'm waiting to time that. I don't think I pay much attention to where the dropping hand is going. I think I'm more of the mindset of: "I'm going to hit him in the face the next time he drops his hand."

I don't remember that I ever bothered to keep track of a dropping hand after it dropped to a position where I thought they couldn't raise it back in time.

What do you see and follow when someone drops their high guard?

 

[isshinryuronin]

If I'm aggressively primed, I'll immediately attack the head. If I'm in a more neutral state, I'll focus on whether his hands have moved in preparation for an impending attack and also, I'll consider how to check his newly positioned arms for my own attack.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If I'm aggressively primed, I'll immediately attack the head. If I'm in a more neutral state, I'll focus on whether his hands have moved in preparation for an impending attack and also, I'll consider how to check his newly positioned arms for my own attack.

How low does the hand have to drop before you stop paying attention to i?

 

[isshinryuronin]

How low does the hand have to drop before you stop paying attention to i?

I always pay attention to that just as I would his stance, weight distribution, etc. for the reasons I posted. Not so much the hands specifically, more so his overall arm position as the hands are attached to the arms. This also lets me keep my attention closer to his core (hips, torso and shoulders) and helps keep me from being distracted by minor hand movements.

 

[wab25]

I would need a lot more context for the guard drop. I have been baited in too many times, where the other guy lowered his guard, waiting for me to go for the open shot, only to counter me hard as I went in. I now will lower my guard, to give an opening, with a counter waiting for the other guy.

Ideally, from the context, I would know if he was baiting me, luring me into something, or whether he is tired..... If he is luring me in, it is different than when he is protecting his body or tired. (I say "ideally" because its still a work in progress....)

What I pay attention to, depends on what I read from the entire context of why he lowered his guard. My response then depends on that read.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I would need a lot more context for the guard drop. I have been baited in too many times, where the other guy lowered his guard, waiting for me to go for the open shot, only to counter me hard as I went in. I now will lower my guard, to give an opening, with a counter waiting for the other guy.

So with this guy. How low does his have to drop his guard before you think he's not baiting you?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What do you see and follow when someone drops their high guard?

This is my favor set up. I always drop my guard to invite a face punch. When a punch come in, I use stealing step to move myself out of the attacking path. I then continue to spin my body with hook punch to knock on the back of my opponent's head. I have knocked down many challengers this way in the past. One time, I knocked my opponent from vertical to horizontal before his body dropped on the ground. I didn't know that was possible.

Your opponent drops his high guard to invite your face punch. When you punch his face, he will kick your belly. Since leg is longer than the arm, he will have advantage. Also, when you straight punch at his face, his hook punch can knock your punching arm down. It's hard to say who has advantage at that moment.

I don't take my opponent's opening. When I kick my opponent's groin/knee, and he drops his arm to block my kick. That's the time I move in and punch on his face.

I like to set up my opponent. I don't like to be set up by my opponent.

 

[Haruhiko]

I'm curious to know what others see when their opponent drops their guard.

If you are facing an opponent and they drop their guard, do you see that they are open or do you see where the hand drops.

There is no right or wrong answer to this. I'm more curious if most people focus on the open shot at the face or if most are also tracking where the hand is going. I think for me. I pay more attention to the open face and I'm waiting to time that. I don't think I pay much attention to where the dropping hand is going. I think I'm more of the mindset of: "I'm going to hit him in the face the next time he drops his hand."

I don't remember that I ever bothered to keep track of a dropping hand after it dropped to a position where I thought they couldn't raise it back in time.

What do you see and follow when someone drops their high guard?

Depends on one's familiarity with their opponent's art. I would be very apprehensive about assuming anything about a student of Hyōhō Niten Ichi-Ryū dropping their guard, but less so against a student of Jigen-Ryū for example.

In jujutsu (no particular school) it would be an opportune moment to grapple assuming their arms are also lowered and they may be adjusting their body, and in Taekwondo (assuming the same) it would be an opportune moment to score.

As Hamlet says: "The readiness is all."

But as Musashi says: "You must not be deceived by the appearance of relaxation in your adversary."

Just my thoughts.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Depends on one's familiarity with their opponent's art. I would be very apprehensive about assuming anything about a student of Hyōhō Niten Ichi-Ryū dropping their guard, but less so against a student of Jigen-Ryū for example.

In jujutsu (no particular school) it would be an opportune moment to grapple assuming their arms are also lowered and they may be adjusting their body, and in Taekwondo (assuming the same) it would be an opportune moment to score.

As Hamlet says: "The readiness is all."

But as Musashi says: "You must not be deceived by the appearance of relaxation in your adversary."

Just my thoughts.

But what do you do when you spar? Or what did you do when you used to spar? If you didn't know what a person trained, then what is your natural reaction when you see someone's hand drop?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Your opponent drops his high guard to invite your face punch. When you punch his face, he will kick your belly.

I got a good chuckle out of this one. I'm always looking for this type of opportunity.


So based on the other things you stated about not taking action when your opponent drops his guard, you typically want to be the reason why your opponent drops his guard. Sort of like: Make your opponent drop his guard and you'll know why it was dropped, vs allowing your opponent to drop their guard on their own and having to guess why it was dropped.

I didn't take you to be someone that cautious.

 

[Haruhiko]

But what do you do when you spar? Or what did you do when you used to spar? If you didn't know what a person trained, then what is your natural reaction when you see someone's hand drop?

When I competed in Taekwondo (which doesn't exactly have guards to begin with), any time my opponent adjusted their posture I was primed into taking the initiative, usually poking their defense with a stepping roundhouse to close the distance. If we were in the bind after, I would usually punch their chest to create distance then back kick (if they responded aggressively, halting their movement and not providing them areas to score), or try a hook kick if they stepped back as the distance was already covered.

There's no sparring in Hyōhō Niten Ichi-Ryū, and especially no sparring between other koryūha.

If I was in a real fight and didn't know anything about my attacker, I would take time to assess my options, first of which is de-escalation (running away included). If that's impossible, then I would try to assess their capabilities or what martial art they may be familiar with. Depending on that - disable, disable, disable. I don't want to end up in court.

If it's a life or death split decision, and they closed in, a simple front kick or back kick. That's only because of muscle memory and training. If I knew jujutsu or aikijujutsu I would opt for that.

I don't focus on hands in the initiative, mainly the waist. If anything, in a real fight, most of my attention would be on the environment.

 

[Gyakuto]

With regards Kendo, I’d see nothing.

When standing before an opponent at a ‘one sword, one cut’ distance (isoku itto no ma), both Kendoka have a sense of pressing toward each other (seme) but the enemy’s bamboo sword tip (shinai’s kensen) keeps them apart; a dynamic equilibrium of attraction and repulsion at the same time. If one Kendoka drops their mental pressure (kizeme) or their kensen wavers (usually a sign of the former) the forward pressure becomes greater in the other, he is pressed forward like the irresitsble gravitational attraction of a black hole, further deflecting the seme of the other whilst simultaneously lifting and cutting with their shinai. It is very quick and has to be trained into the Kendoka.

My experience is that in unarmed martial arts, the feeling is often more like trying to ballistically ‘leap into’ the enemy’s ‘kill zone’ rather than being drawn into it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I didn't take you to be someone that cautious.

What you can see may not be the real opening. Your opponent's arm can raise back up before your punch can reach to his face.

What you can feel will be the true opening. If you can punch when your opponent's arm starts to drop down, it takes time for his arm to come back up. But you have to make that happen.

Drop guard can be a bait. Here are examples.

 

[_Simon_]

Yeah depends! Sometimes I'll whip a jab out straight away, or sometimes I'll actually do a front leg mae geri/front kick to lower their hands further and jab to a super exposed face (retracting the foot really quickly and jabbing as soon as my foot lands).

But mainly I watch that the head area has opened, but hey that's a good idea seeing where the hands go, in case something else is being planned.