For gods sakes…
It's so weird. If I haven't been on topic... then you also... no. That can't be right.
I've been responding to the bizarre ideas you've been putting forth, trying to knock them out. You've continued to push out of place ideas, no matter the correction you've received. This ain't on me, Steve.
?? Of course there is a difference between the two. Who's suggested otherwise? I think GPSeymour understood. I hope so. Come on, Chris. You're killing me here. I provided definitions that were external. I shared context. It's okay if you have a different working definition of the term, that's unique to you. But the words mean something to other people.
Hardly unique to me, Steve… just not the American understanding of irony and sarcasm… besides which, if you were genuinely being sarcastic, or genuinely felt you were being ironic, it defeats the purpose of even having posted in the first place. If you don't see that, I stand by my assessment that you genuinely have little grasp of either concept. Personally, I feel that you are trying to cover up now, as none of the explanations actually make any sense at all. But, again, this is really all completely besides the point… and I'm only going to address one more aspect of it.
Kind of like how words are borrowed from other cultures and then as the two cultures blend, they take on new meanings. Like, jujutsu... or jiu jitsu.
This takes us back to the idea of loan words, and whether they are considered "native language"… no matter how you look at it, despite the fact that it has entered the popular lexicon, it is not a Portuguese, nor an English word. At best, it is a Japanese loan-word in those languages… but even that is completely besides the point here.
I'm going to say this once more.
This is the JAPANESE MARTIAL ARTS forum. Not the BJJ one. Not the Western Arts one. The Japanese arts one. If you don't want to discuss Japanese arts, in their Japanese context, you have no place here.
So, to bring this back full circle. You have a unique understanding of the term "sarcasm." You think it means something that is different from how other people use it. You disagree not just with me, but with any dictionary I was able to find, and with common usage of the terms.
You might actually be correct within your local context. People you know and who are around you might also misunderstand the term and misuse it. But over time, as this usage becomes commonplace, the definition of the word evolves. So, while it will certainly continue to mean what people understand it to mean, your variation may become an understood definition.
Not unique, Steve. Just not American. You do get that you guys aren't the only ones in the world, yeah?
This is what happens with words like sushi or karate or jujutsu or nijutsu or all kinds of other terms. As I explained in detail in other threads, the Brazilians aren't misusing or even misspelling the word Jiu-Jitsu. It's a Portuguese word. The confusion on your part (at the time, at least) is in believing it is a Japanese word. It's not.
No matter what you think in your little corner, this is the Japanese martial arts area… and yes, here, Jujutsu is absolutely a Japanese word. The confusion on your part is that you think the opinion of outsiders means anything to this.
Most importantly, though, even this is not even close to the topic of this thread. Either address it, or move on.
This is irony, for what it's worth. But I'm pretty sure you don't understand why, because you still don't understand the relationship between sarcasm and irony.
No, Steve, that was not irony at all. Not by a long shot.
But hey, don't take my word for it. Googling "American's understand irony" and you'll get a wide range of hits… here's one of the first I found:
Here's The Real Reason Why Americans Don't Get Irony
Says Chris Parker after yet another post that was off topic.
Two calls to get back on topic, and one aside to deal with your further comments, and you are calling that off topic? Compared to your posts? Seriously?
@Steve,
@Chris Parker, would it be ok if I could direct you both back to topic or away from the precipice of personal remarks? I worry the experience, thoughts and opinions of you both are too valuable to waste in debating what is not relevant to this topic or even forum.. please..
J, I'm trying…
They are deliberately claiming they are teaching Japanese jujitsu.
Are they lying?
Misinformed. Bradshaw, potentially, was lying.
Because if they are not lying then they are doing Japanese jujitsu. Via.
Wait for it.
Anecdotal evidence.
What anecdotal evidence?!? Do you even know what you're saying?
Because it it pretty silly to assume a whole style just dosent realise what their style is.
No. No, you don't know what you're saying.
For the record, no, it's not "pretty silly" to assume anything of the kind. Ashida Kim's and Frank Dux's students often don't realise that they're not doing a Japanese art, let alone the ninjutsu it's claimed to be… it's just a matter of the people involved not having the education to be able to recognise it.
It's actually a fairly common phenomena… people train in something, and are told that it is a particular thing (Japanese jujutsu, in this case). As a result, the only major reference point they have is what they are taught in that class… and they seize on the idea that what they're doing is what they're told it is… so they only identify similarities in other systems, and ignore the differences. I've brought up a friend of mine before, who teaches a particular system of what he has been taught is, and believes is, a very traditional art based on classical Japanese systems. Problem is, it's not. It's a modern, Western creation invented in the 50's in England. But he has an interest in classical Japanese traditions, is a member of a number of Koryu pages on Facebook, and travels to Japan once a year, including training in small amounts in some of the classical systems there… and, despite the fact that there is plenty of information to show him that his art is not actually related to classical Japanese traditions, he sees only the more tenuous similarities, and ignores the discrepancies.
With your group, the problems and discrepancies are even more overt than with my friends system… to the point of calling it "Tai Jitsu Ryu", which is just screaming the problems. But, for those there, it's all they know of "Japanese Jujutsu" (as with yourself)… so yeah, they don't realise what their style is. The same way you didn't realise that what you did was not Japanese Jujutsu in anything other than an illegitimately appropriated name.
Maybe this isn't the forum for you I hear that there are other forums that will actively let you fraud bust.
You would get on fine there.
Once again, you really don't get what fraud busting is.
Yeah those cultural gaps can be a big factor. Like the one between Australians and the Japanese.
(I fully admit I have no moral high ground)
You have no high ground at all, moral or otherwise, especially in this arena. Because, again, this lunatic idea you can't let go of is a false criteria that you don't understand in the first place.
Okay, can we get past all this now, and actually discuss what traditional Jujutsu entails, as per the OP (not that I expect him to take much on board), or just let the thread die?
