A Boxer Style Hook

[Kenpojujitsu3]

If two fighters are in close, and that hook is thrown, I'm wondering if an outward extended block would deflect the hook or would the hook punch circle or slide around the block.

By the way, i think someone mentioned defending a jab... I studied under Bob Perry and Bill Neff; they had renamed, I believe, Shielding Mace as "Boxer Style Left Jab" (to defend against the jab, of course).

depends on how close which is why the hooh punch defenses have a step back included instead of a step in. Too close and the punch will go around the block and score a clean hit.

 

[Andrew Green]

Disagree. Any tool is useful if you know how to use it. All the punches are just tools. The person makes them work not the style. So yes you can throw a shotokan reverse punch in boxing and have it have effect. Timing is (arguably) the most essential basic of any fighting art. If you time the blow properly and set it up properly it will land regardless of the "style" attached to it as the "style" is just a descriptional tool for discussion.

To some extent yes, butyour pieces do need to fit in. As what I would consider a very clear cut example, try adding TKD kicks to a freestyle wrestling base. Or WIng Chun trapping to Boxing. They just don't fit together.

I cannot see what you see when you visualize text.

No, text is a poor medium for technical discussion. Which is why I would like to see a video or even pictures with explnation, keeps everyone on the same page. Also why I posted a couple variations on a hook from a boxing style.

So... can anyone of the Kenpo folks give a link, or grab camera and get us all on the sage page?

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

To some extent yes, butyour pieces do need to fit in. As what I would consider a very clear cut example, try adding TKD kicks to a freestyle wrestling base. Or WIng Chun trapping to Boxing. They just don't fit together.

And I would consider these examples not clear cut for many reasons

1) Range differences. TKD kicks = long range while freestyle wrestling is short range. Kicking period from close range is next to impossible and shooting from long range is damn near suicidal. But someone blending the two and adjusting for various ranges isn't hard. See Chuck Lidell, Pedro Rizzo and Marco Ruas for good examples of switching from kicking techniques to freestye wrestling as the situation demands. Same thing for Wing Chun and Boxing....different effective ranges. I remember people saying that boxing and wrestling didn't mix....until the Coutures, Ortizs, and Fryes of the world showed up.

2) Rule Sets. All of the styles you chose operate under a specific rule structure which violates therules of the other. Can't kick in wrestling, Can't grab in TKD, can't kick or grab in Boxing. That right there causes issue. Especially since 3 of the 4 are sports in some instances.

You seem to have your mind set on "this is Apples and this is Oranges and you can't mix the two". My experience has shown me otherwise.

 

[Doc]

Damn those moderators. They should just shut up right Doc? All these posts from moderators = moderation right? And if a guy who is a moderator posts in an area he doesn't moderate, that means he's over moderating, right? And what would a non-kenpoist know about kenpo? Especially compared to someone like yourself. I mean, no one knows kenpo like you do, what you being they one guy out of all the rest that Parker gave secret training too that none of the others got. They can't have, otherwise they would be teaching it right?

I read your huff n puff there about over moderation, sat back and read through a number of threads here and I can't find a single recent moderator warning. In fact, i saw a person who happens to be a moderator here, posting his informed opinion. I didn't see moderation going on. Maybe that degree from that prestigious university you always refuse to identify lets you see more than us mere mortals who have not yet found that enlightenment thing. Who bloody knows? Just because someone disagrees with you or wants to to expand and validate your reply doesn't make it "moderation". But you with your expansive background would now that right? So why not just do it since that is often what you teacher types ask us lowly students to do so often? "Expand and Justify"

Seriously Doc, lighten up and stop thinking you are the sole fountain of kenpo wisdom around. Your SL-4 stuff isn't bad, but others have equally valid theories on movement and all that stuff. One doesn't need to have been anointed secretly by EP to know the mechanics of boxing, just ask Mike Tyson but watch your ears. You have a ton of valuable knowledge, but you come off as a closed minded and often arrogant know-it-all who thinks his **** don't stink in too many of your postings. I for one, don't care for feeling as if someone is talking down to me.

By The Way, Back to Moderation:
Mr. Green moderates the MMA and Grappling sections.
You might also want to reread the rules Doc before your fantasy that disagreement + moderation + public outcry != account suspention be proven for the false statement it is.

Have a Nice Kenpo Day.

11Mary6 1Adam Henry Clear.

 

[distalero]

Perhaps this is the time to point out two ideas in this thread that one would want to consider? One relates to why a "boxing style hook" wasn't really promoted much back in the Middle Ages of Kenpo in my locale, and the other has been possibly ignored.

First point: Did everyone read Blindside's first post? THAT'S why it wasn't promoted much back then (partly out of our own denial, though).

Second point: The first point brings us to the resulting implied but not mentioned issue in all of this, and that's a boxer's fist is tightly taped in a specific way, and covered in a boxing glove. Hooking bare fisted, at least hooking a punch in the commonly understood way (however accurate or inaccurate the understanding), raised the risk of broken and/or dislocated bones, big time, if for no other reason than hitting an angry target isn't that easy. Breaking your own bones was frowned on as bad technique (we had that much down )

 

[ChadWarner]

Perhaps this is the time to point out two ideas in this thread that one would want to consider? One relates to why a "boxing style hook" wasn't really promoted much back in the Middle Ages of Kenpo in my locale, and the other has been possibly ignored.

First point: Did everyone read Blindside's first post? THAT'S why it wasn't promoted much back then (partly out of our own denial, though).

Second point: The first point brings us to the resulting implied but not mentioned issue in all of this, and that's a boxer's fist is tightly taped in a specific way, and covered in a boxing glove. Hooking bare fisted, at least hooking a punch in the commonly understood way (however accurate or inaccurate the understanding), raised the risk of broken and/or dislocated bones, big time, if for no other reason than hitting an angry target isn't that easy. Breaking your own bones was frowned on as bad technique (we had that much down )

Asian based arts are 2 thousand years old at least. Someone figured it before America was ever even colonized let alone commercialized martial art reared its head. There is not really a common accepted way because there are many, many ways and angles on which to hook. A good boxer uses prolly 3 different hooks. A well rounded Kenpo student should have 23. We eye hook, fish hook, hook kick, uppercut, and we definitely hook to the body and head with our hands. We invert our fists (blinding sacrifice and twirling hammers) and strike with the back of the knuckle, palm up fist repeating mace, etc, etc. As Doc said, a boxer style hook is just one version of the many that already exist in this art.

Hooks land after the apex of the cirlcle, If the techs I mentioned are to be looked at a little closer we will find that the apex of the cirlce of the hooking movement is adjustable. It is adjustable because of where you are etc, one of my biggest things when matching someone is to be able to adjust to them. Ie arm length and the 4 ranges. When people eliminate things it is purely a lack of information and understanding that causes this unless: Of course there is always an unless. Unless uselessness has been determined for you at this particular point in time not to be permenently deleted from your arsenal because there will be a fractional use for it sooner or later. I should know- I am the King of throwing away material only to find a use for it years later and not really remember it as good as it was.

Somethings I will never find a use for are blocking with my nads, my nose or my teeth.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Damn those moderators. They should just shut up right Doc? All these posts from moderators = moderation right? And if a guy who is a moderator posts in an area he doesn't moderate, that means he's over moderating, right? And what would a non-kenpoist know about kenpo? Especially compared to someone like yourself. I mean, no one knows kenpo like you do, what you being they one guy out of all the rest that Parker gave secret training too that none of the others got. They can't have, otherwise they would be teaching it right?

I read your huff n puff there about over moderation, sat back and read through a number of threads here and I can't find a single recent moderator warning. In fact, i saw a person who happens to be a moderator here, posting his informed opinion. I didn't see moderation going on. Maybe that degree from that prestigious university you always refuse to identify lets you see more than us mere mortals who have not yet found that enlightenment thing. Who bloody knows? Just because someone disagrees with you or wants to to expand and validate your reply doesn't make it "moderation". But you with your expansive background would now that right? So why not just do it since that is often what you teacher types ask us lowly students to do so often? "Expand and Justify"

Seriously Doc, lighten up and stop thinking you are the sole fountain of kenpo wisdom around. Your SL-4 stuff isn't bad, but others have equally valid theories on movement and all that stuff. One doesn't need to have been anointed secretly by EP to know the mechanics of boxing, just ask Mike Tyson but watch your ears. You have a ton of valuable knowledge, but you come off as a closed minded and often arrogant know-it-all who thinks his **** don't stink in too many of your postings. I for one, don't care for feeling as if someone is talking down to me.

By The Way, Back to Moderation:
Mr. Green moderates the MMA and Grappling sections.
You might also want to reread the rules Doc before your fantasy that disagreement + moderation + public outcry != account suspention be proven for the false statement it is.

Have a Nice Kenpo Day.

Ya know, I've been thinking about this particular post. I originally opted to keep my mouth shut and stay out, because Doc is a friend of mine, and I figured anything I said would just be framed as "You're just saying that because you're Doc's friend".

But the entire tone of this post has been sticking in my craw as being akin to cussing out your kid for using the F word. Credibility of any observation falls to the wayside in light of the demeaning and sarcastic tone used in delivery. It reads as if you went out of your way to do a bunch of muckraking research on the man & the issue so you could be sarcastic and nasty with some extra umph. I see very thinly veiled fecal matter used to spank and bait someone who may have simply erred in perception, and who could have been invited back into the current conversation through simpler means. One could still have been as direct as Doc in disagreeing with Doc, without using such a confrontational and disrespectful tone to demand that he stop being disrespectful and confrontational.

If your intent was to invite him to participate in the conversation at a more gentlemanly level, this was a piss poor way to do it. There's room in there for modelling the difference you hope to create.

I'm sure I'll get blasted or exposed to endless strings of blame-calling for this; I just hope the underlying theme isn't lost or forgotten.

Regards,

Dave

 

[SL4Drew]

I'm sure I'll get blasted or exposed to endless strings of blame-calling for this; I just hope the underlying theme isn't lost or forgotten.

Regards,

Dave

I hope not. You were spot on.

 

[kidswarrior]

There's room in there for modelling the difference you hope to create.

Regards,

Dave

Classy 'n classic.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The mod team took care of the issues quietly, and opted not to post anything in-thread as the thread had appeared to move back on topic. Lets keep it there please.

If there is a problem with anyone's posts, pleast use the Report to Moderator feature (the

icon). We will take care of it.

Thanks.