A BB's philosophy

I have some mixed feelings about all this.

First off, if the guy likes to beat up homeless drunks who happen to hassle him for spare change, then he is a jackass plain and simple and this has nothing to do with his rank or depth of study. It's just a personality flaw.

However, I'm going to suggest that there are actually plenty of legitimate reasons why someone might not be able to train under an instructor, and yet might continue to practice on his own, as this person seems to still do, and continue to progress in his own practice.

For one, perhaps he is no longer living close enough to his instructor to continue training with him, and he hasn't found another teacher with whom he is interested in training. Maybe family and financial commitments prevent him from training with an instructor. These circumstances could enter the picture at a color belt level, or at any black belt level. From the prior posts, it sounds like these are perhaps not the case for this individual, but on a wider topic of conversation, I think these are valid possibilities. And under these circumstances, I applaud someone who is dedicated to continuing his own practice to the best of his abilities, on his own, whether as an underbelt, or as a low level black belt. It is easy to go to a school where others help motivate you to train, and train hard. It is much more difficult, especially over a long period of time, to find your own motivation to train hard, without someone pushing you to do so, and without the carrot of Higher Rank dangled in front of your nose. While this is not a perfect situation, I believe very very strongly, that you can continue to grow in your practice, in this way. In some ways, what you discover in this way will mean more to you than what you could be shown, because you uncovered it yourself.

Now of course there is always someone who can teach us more, no matter what level we are at, and this, in theory, is ideal. To train under a skilled and knowledgeable teacher is the best way to progress. But I don't think it is accurate to look down on someone who happens to be at a low rank but trains on his own. This is not the same, however, as the person in the thread who feels that he sort of "knows it all". That is obviously not true of anybody, including the most experienced 10th degrees.

It sounds to me like this guy is kind of an ***, and perhaps arrogant as well. But he also sounds like he is still doing his own training, so I think he hasn't just abandoned the path. But moving away from him as an example, and looking at it in a more general sense, I think there is some merit in this position, depending on circumstances.
 
Master Michael --

An excellent point, and well taken. Thank you for the slap across the face, for I did study on my own for many years after leaving my teacher. While I searched for another, there was none right for me.

However, I welcome study with another in a way that the sweatshirt guy would not. I have no doubt I can learn something from everyone -- including speaking with a wino on a street corner, a master in a kwoon or dojo, a clergyite (I hate feeling like I have to be politically correct, but who, besides me, in this day and age would accept clergyman to reflect both the yin and yang?), a teacher, a child or a guy in a sweatshirt. Sweatshirt guy doesn't think anyone has anything to teach him. This, I believe, is where his Teacher failed. I do not think sweatshirt guy thinks anyone has anything to teach him. He believes his art is strictly about fighting. Jab, backfist, hook, backfist to the groin. He's down for the count.

But what a wonderful lesson he brought us through this venue! And thank you again for keeping me on my toes, sts.

Regards,
 
Yes, I agree that in the case of the individual who is the original subject of this discussion, he has misunderstood, or failed to get, some of the lessons. To think that there is nothing more to learn is just plain wrong. There is always more to learn, no matter what. He can train, and he may improve on his own, but he is fooling himself into thinking he knows it all, and fooling yourself is very dangerous. On a superficial level he is on track, in that he still practices. But on an emotional and mental level, he is missing the boat because he believes he knows it all, or believes he can figure it all out for himself.

I guess maybe I wanted to point out what I did for personal reasons. I have had extended periods of time in which I have trained by myself, and even when I train with a teacher, I spend a lot of time training by myself. Even if I never trained under a teacher again, whether due to circumstances or choice, I would always continue to train by myself, and I refuse to believe that it is not time well spent.

I myself have been a first degree black belt for almost 20 years. The reasons I stated in my prior post all apply to me. I moved away to go to school, and later in life to simply relocate, and couldn't continue with my instructor. I haven't found another instructor in my original style with whom I would be willing to train, and who was close enough for me to be able to travel. I have personal and family obligations that simply make it impossible, tho if I was still a single person, I could choose to do it. While my wife is very supportive of my training (she is also a martial artist), I do have to be home SOMETIMES, to keep a healthy releationship.

I have studied under other teachers of other styles, however. Some gave rank, others did not, or downplayed it strongly. At any rate, while I hold rank in two other systems, I have never earned anything above the equivalent of first degree black belt in any of them. But I continue to train them all, and continue to train with these other teachers, because I know they have a lot to offer.

While I hope I am not the jackass that the subject of this thread seems to be, in some ways I could see my own circumstances mirrored in his. I guess that's why I pointed out what I did, and wanted to give another perspective.

Keep in mind also, I believe that systems today are often more extensive than they were originally. Generations ago, I think people learned a small handful of forms, but understood them intimately and were very very good at applying the techniques contained in those forms. Nowadays, it seems there are more and more forms and techniques and sets, and patterns and drills and whatnot, and sometimes it reaches the point of overload. When one cannot yet do the lower level stuff with proficiency, why bother to learn more material? I can certainly understand the notion of seeing more material as unnecessary and even detrimental to one's training, and instead just focusing on what one already has.
 
Master Michael --

I do not think anyone reading your words would ever mistake you for the man in the sweatshirt.

And you should stop berating yourself for spending so much time training on your own. I have done some of my best learning after I have left my teacher's presence. It is then that you begin to assimilate and finally own what your teacher has presented to you. It starts to resonate with your energy until there is no one who can take it away from you.

That is just freaking fabulous as far as I am concerned. Now take that knowledge and surpass your teachers -- it is the greatest gift you could ever give them.

Rots of Ruck.

Regards,
 
NLMontana said:
Master Michael --

I do not think anyone reading your words would ever mistake you for the man in the sweatshirt.

And you should stop berating yourself for spending so much time training on your own. I have done some of my best learning after I have left my teacher's presence. It is then that you begin to assimilate and finally own what your teacher has presented to you. It starts to resonate with your energy until there is no one who can take it away from you.

That is just freaking fabulous as far as I am concerned. Now take that knowledge and surpass your teachers -- it is the greatest gift you could ever give them.

Rots of Ruck.

Regards,

I appreciate the words of support. I certainly do not berate myself for spending time training by myself. I agree, I also believe it is tremendously important to do this, as this is when you really begin to "own" the material, as you are doing it on your own and without guidance. I also simply enjoy it. Training has always been a very personal thing for me, and while I always appreciate partners to work with and teachers to learn from, I also simply need the solitude as well. It's just my way.

Some of the comments by others in this thread seemed to perhaps not acknowledge this side of the coin, and I just wanted to point it out to add to the discussion and maybe complete the picture a bit, thats all.

As for your last comment above, while visiting my old teacher one day, I was in the next room and I heard him tell someone that he felt I had surpassed his ability, thru studying the other arts that I have done. It was a tremendous complement, and I don't think he knew I heard him, but I just took that as a huge sign of the faith and trust that he has in me. Whether or not he is right in his assessment, I always have the utmost gratitude for what he taught me, as it was the base from which I was able to learn other things and grow in the way that I have. I keep in touch with him and even see him every couple years or so, but we live halfway across the continent from each other.
 
I empathize. My teacher is 1200 miles away and I haven't seen him in about 10 years.

But he is in my head every day. What a beautiful thing.

Regards.
 
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