99.9% of female martial artists fail in self defense?

[fireman00]

question to instructors and females on the forum.... I belong to a runners forum, one of the female members started a thread about her last run. She felt uncomfortable on the run because a man in a car continually pestered her.

A number of folks,myself included, suggested that she take a self defense class, learn to use then carry pepper spray on her runs and learn to understand situational awareness.

One of the members stated that as a martial artist he felt 99.9 percent of ladies taking martial arts wouldn't be able to defend themselves against an attacker until after taking years of martial arts lessons.

I would think that a good self defense class should be able to teach a woman how to recognize and avoid situations which might lead to problems as well as basic ankle, knee, thigh, chest, throat, nose and eye strikes with the knee and elbow.

Your thoughts?

 

[MJS]

question to instructors and females on the forum.... I belong to a runners forum, one of the female members started a thread about her last run. She felt uncomfortable on the run because a man in a car continually pestered her.

A number of folks,myself included, suggested that she take a self defense class, learn to use then carry pepper spray on her runs and learn to understand situational awareness.

One of the members stated that as a martial artist he felt 99.9 percent of ladies taking martial arts wouldn't be able to defend themselves against an attacker until after taking years of martial arts lessons.

I would think that a good self defense class should be able to teach a woman how to recognize and avoid situations which might lead to problems as well as basic ankle, knee, thigh, chest, throat, nose and eye strikes with the knee and elbow.

Your thoughts?

IMO, its all going to come down to how the females train. If they have the mentality such as described in this thread that I started, then, yeah, they'll probably get hurt or worse. As for the guy in the car, IMO, it may be a good idea to get a description of the male driving as well as the car, and call the police.

 

[Carol]

One of the members stated that as a martial artist he felt 99.9 percent of ladies taking martial arts wouldn't be able to defend themselves against an attacker until after taking years of martial arts lessons.

99.9 percent, eh? Sounds more like a dude with an axe to grind with regards to women, then a man of analytical prowess.

I have never heard a man say "99.9 percent of women cannot <fill in the blank>" as a matter of honest critique.

 

[ceaer]

One of the members stated that as a martial artist he felt 99.9 percent of ladies taking martial arts wouldn't be able to defend themselves against an attacker until after taking years of martial arts lessons.

How stupid.

Many women are able to defend themselves every day without ever having taken a single martial arts lesson.

Women who do take martial arts for self defense should not need years to be able to defend themselves.

Obviously no one is going to be excellent at martial arts after say 6 weeks, but you don't need to be excellent at martial arts to defend yourself.

If someone grabs you, you just need to be able to get them to let go and then you run like hell. You don't need to stick around and beat them up. Getting away is the priority and it shouldn't take years to learn a few simple and effective techniques for escaping grabs, bearhugs, chokes, etc.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I believe women have a distinct advantage over men in that their attacker almost always asssumes they have no ability to fight whatsoever, so if the woman knows some self defence/martial arts she instantly has the upper hand. I spoke to a 3rd dan female that I train with about this a couple of years ago and she said she had a guy get a bit rough with her once in a night club and before he knew what happened she had him pinned on the ground because he took her too lightly. Had it been a man he was roughing up he may have shown a bit more caution. Basically, of course a woman can learn to defend herself just as well as a man can.

 

[mook jong man]

question to instructors and females on the forum.... I belong to a runners forum, one of the female members started a thread about her last run. She felt uncomfortable on the run because a man in a car continually pestered her.

A number of folks,myself included, suggested that she take a self defense class, learn to use then carry pepper spray on her runs and learn to understand situational awareness.

One of the members stated that as a martial artist he felt 99.9 percent of ladies taking martial arts wouldn't be able to defend themselves against an attacker until after taking years of martial arts lessons.

I would think that a good self defense class should be able to teach a woman how to recognize and avoid situations which might lead to problems as well as basic ankle, knee, thigh, chest, throat, nose and eye strikes with the knee and elbow.

Your thoughts?

In Australia the technical term for this bloke would be DROP KICK.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

In Australia the technical term for this bloke would be DROP KICK.

as an australian myself, I must agree, and dropkick would be one of the nicer ways we would describe him.

 

[Stac3y]

Just a point about running (or walking) on public roads. You should always run facing traffic, for several reasons. First, it allows you to see cars coming and move aside if necessary. Second, it allows you to see the drivers' faces--that helps you to determine what they might do. Third, it prevents drivers from following you--unless they want to make a u-turn and come after you, in which case a) you'll know you need to get away from them and b) they'll at least be on the other side of the road, giving you a little distance.

If I sound paranoid, here's why: I have had two acquaintances who didn't follow this rule and wound up in trouble. One was struck from behind by a car and thrown into an overgrown ditch, where he lay for almost a day before he was found and taken to the hospital. He recovered, fortunately. The other was not so lucky. She was struck from behind intentionally by a serial rapist and killer who then kidnapped, raped, and murdered her.

No matter how good your fighting skills are, if you get hit by a car, you're toast.

 

[ap Oweyn]

Sounds like you guys were talking at cross purposes. Though it also sounds like he pulled that number out of... the ether. If you're talking about situational awareness, pepper spray, etc., I'd guess that a high percentage of martial arts students (of either gender) aren't learning that. I've been involved in martial arts for over 26 years and have never learned situational awareness or nonlethal countermeasures in that setting.

I think a fair number of martial arts students of any sort would fail in a self-defense situation. It's a simple matter of training methods matching up with the real thing. Very often, one bears very little resemblance to the other. Unless you're taking a class very specifically geared toward that scenario, odds are decent that your transition into reality isn't going to be seamless.

As for this specific situation, I think that situational awareness is paramount, as you said. And a healthy respect for the appropriate application of pride. My wife went running on a track once, with some weirdo standing in the middle watching her. Unsurprisingly, he later tried to grab her. She got away without much fanfare, but when she told me this story (which took place years before we were together), I was distressed that she let 'I'm not going to let some weirdo mess up my run' take precedence over 'this guy could be armed and genuinely dangerous.'

It's like my friend who insists on walking straight into pedestrian crosswalks because in principle, the cars are obliged to stop. Scant comfort when you're in full body traction that, technically, you were in the right.


Stuart

 

[Big Don]

87.5% of statistics are 100% Bovine Excrement

 

[CoryKS]

I have never heard a man say "99.9 percent of women cannot <fill in the blank>" as a matter of honest critique.

99.9 percent of women cannot write their name in the snow.

 

[Xue Sheng]

One of the members stated that as a martial artist he felt 99.9 percent of ladies taking martial arts wouldn't be able to defend themselves against an attacker until after taking years of martial arts lessons.

Then 99.9% of martial arts classes teaching women are bogus.

All I will say is that I learned Aikido was rather effective from a woman and 100% or the men I spared prior to that who trained Aikido were not able to prove that.

 

[ap Oweyn]

100% or the men I spared prior to that who trained Aikido were not able to prove that.

Either you meant to type "sparred" or your training is a whole lot more hardcore than mine.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Either you meant to type "sparred" or your training is a whole lot more hardcore than mine.

Well we are talking Xuefu the ultimate evolution in the martial arts... we don't usually spare anyone :EG:

Yup, I meant to type Sparred, sorry but my fingers is stupid today and me brain ain't far behind.

 

[Flea]

99.9 percent of women cannot write their name in the snow.

Two old men were talking on a winter's day.

"I'm going to have to disown my daughter. I saw her name written in the snow."

"What? Lots of guys do that. It doesn't mean anything."

"You think I don't recognize my own daughter's handwriting?" :bomb:




And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. I think that in a situation like that, with a weirdo following you in his car, MA isn't necessary. If he decides to pull over that's a completely different conversation. But for following and catcalls, simply crossing the street should take care of it. I don't see that as a MA scenario unless there are other extenuating circumstances. Such as, apparently, her being a man.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

question to instructors and females on the forum.... I belong to a runners forum, one of the female members started a thread about her last run. She felt uncomfortable on the run because a man in a car continually pestered her.

A number of folks,myself included, suggested that she take a self defense class, learn to use then carry pepper spray on her runs and learn to understand situational awareness.

One of the members stated that as a martial artist he felt 99.9 percent of ladies taking martial arts wouldn't be able to defend themselves against an attacker until after taking years of martial arts lessons.

And as he is a "martial artist," it likely took him years to learn to defend himself too. Martial arts classes are about developing a person in a lot of ways other than just self defense. There are often cultural and formal aspects as well as general conditioning. Lengthy amounts of time are spent learning very basic techniques, something that can frustrate the impatient.

I would think that a good self defense class should be able to teach a woman how to recognize and avoid situations which might lead to problems as well as basic ankle, knee, thigh, chest, throat, nose and eye strikes with the knee and elbow.

Your thoughts?

For anyone, man or woman, if self defense alone is what you are after, there are quicker ways to gain practical skills. While self defense is a part of martial arts, it is still only a part of a greater whole.

There are also parts of self defense that are never touched on in most MA classes. There is a whole psychological element that really can be taught as an art all its own, not to mention awareness skills and a whole host of various seemingly minor things that one would never think of unless they had specific training, much of which is not a part of the martial arts.

Generally, man or woman, if you want to learn to defend yourself from muggers and assailants, ask pointed questions and do your research. The sport TKD place that cranked out two olympians may be a tournament fighter's dream, but will not fit the bill as you describe above. Same goes for the McDojo that caters primarily to children and families. You can count kendo, kumdo, iaido, and kenjutsu out as well unless you happen to carry a sword with you.

Daniel

 

[KELLYG]

Stereo type just crack me up.. I don't think a lot of failure in self-defense has anything to do with a persons gender. I think that it has to do more with mind set as well as training. You can be male and a well trained martial artist that has vast experience in self defense and freeze up or cower when a real life self defense scenario comes up, same with a female. I will just let people keep their stereo types, as a female it will give me an edge..

 

[ap Oweyn]

Well we are talking Xuefu the ultimate evolution in the martial arts... we don't usually spare anyone :EG:

Yup, I meant to type Sparred, sorry but my fingers is stupid today and me brain ain't far behind.

Hey, if it makes you feel any better, it cheered me up immeasurably.

 

[sgtmac_46]

It's not really an unfair stereotype to say that women are at a distinct disadvantage against a large percentage of men on this planet when it comes to a physical assault. The point of martial arts, however, is to overcome physical disparity by maximizing advantages and minimizing disadvantages.

The reality is that there are a lot of effective arts out there that will teach women to better defend themselves. Does that mean that they will be able to defend themselves against every potential attacker? No, and I don't think that's a fair yard stick of it's usefulness.

One of the benefits of good self defense training is in developing non-physical skills like awareness. If a woman learns to identify signs of danger and aggression, that's a phenomenal advantage to her........because an assault avoided is a fight won!

Moreover, if a woman can learn how to harness aggression, build speed, and learn to use the element of surprise, she can overcome many potential attackers in the event she does come after attack.

The reality is that there is no perfect defense........but one can constantly make oneself a harder and harder target, man, woman or child.

 

[Phoenix44]

One of the members stated that as a martial artist he felt 99.9 percent of ladies taking martial arts wouldn't be able to defend themselves against an attacker until after taking years of martial arts lessons.

Well, I'm not sure what qualifies him to make a commentary on 99.9% of anything, but I'm sure that the same would apply to most men taking martial arts.