The different points of a martial artist.

[muffin_cup_of_death]

Ok, I think this will clear things up. I dont throw anything away that I learn, i just will never apply training that I think does not suit my own personal preference. I could give a damn about the history, and nonsense of that sort. I care about today, and tomorrow, and the days to follow. So I train for now, and the future, in the way I feel will be appropriate for real combat in these modern times. And someone mentioned that some people cant figure out the concepts of a rising block after a year? Then they need to try a different hobby, Edited to conform to MT's Rules. I am a hard core realist. I dont care for anything that will not help me. You figure I just jumped into some schools, and jumped out without learning the basics? Funny, thats an awful big assumption being that you were not there, and I was, and I know what I learned. My style is Collective COMBAT studies...nothing else. Combat, fighting and survival. I dont care who did what in the past, nor for the traditions, politics, foreign language, etc. So maybe I am not even a martial artist...LMAO. Im a soldier. And warfare is my way. Now, war is about history, but its a whole different area. It includes using the mind as well as the body. So to all who dont understand, go practice you little kata, and make sure your hand is on your hip, and everyone thinks you look real swell.
For you may never understand, but long as we are all happy, who cares.
do it your way, Ill do it mine.
By the way, no one can get a black belt in a year unless its a 1. a McDojo, or 2. they train from sunrise to sunset everyday, all day.

 

[beauty_in_the_sai]

1. i dont think a year in any given art is nearly enough time to master the basics of said art.......and i say this even to the ones that have exceptional martial arts abilities.
the basics in any art usually include anything up to and including black belt. if you're able to get a black belt in a year......you're studying with the wrong teachers.

2. i do not understand this statement at all. thats like saying any art out there above black belt contains no useful info as it is all "flashy tournament crap".
when you start approaching black belt is when you start to learn the fundamentals of an art. the training usually starts to get a bit harder, the concepts become a bit tougher to grasp.
in short, black belt is the time you start to really learn to put the basics to work.

i was never a big believer in Bruce Lee's method.......i think he was above average, but not spectacular.
i think he has influenced a lot of people in a negative way with the whole "absorb what is useful" concept. it makes for lazy training and people that throw out something potentially useful, but because they are limited in their knowledge, did not see it as such.

if my whole jumbled mess comment offends you.....im terribly sorry. but that is what it usually appears to be.

I heavily disagree with this. I don't really want to push to agruement, but on my opinion, Bruce Lee was one of the greatest martial artists to have ever lived. I feel I ought to defend my role model and the person who got me in martial arts in the first place. First off, the philosophy behind JKD is VERY good. If you limit yourself to one style, a person of many styles could easily beat you. I found that out all to well when I was ONLY a taekwondoist. Do I like JKD as a style? No, not really. However, the philosophy did not match the style.

As far as black belt flashy tournament crap goes, most of it wouldn't work in real combat. Would you really try to do a jumping spinning roundhouse kick in a real fight? Uh.....no. Sure it looks nice in a performance, but a swift front snap kick to the balls will always get you out of a REAL fight (I know from experience). It doesn't look pretty but it works. That's what Bruce was getting at.

As far as mastering the basics of a style, let's go over the basics first: kick, punch, block, and stance. TADA! Sure there are little differences between styles, but not a whole lot. the only exception would be Judo, Aikido, and Jujutsu. I'm thinking of taking those after ninjutsu in case I get knocked down in a fight. We all (well most of us anyway) have 2 arms, 2 legs, 2 knees, and 2 elbows to strike with. In your first art when you are just starting in the world of martial arts you learn block, punch, kick, and stance. That, to me, is the basics. My motto is kick the guy in the balls, then it's over.

If you don't want me to make anymore such speeches, please don't talk bad about Bruce Lee. Believe it or not, some people care and are sensitive to that, especially if like me, they REALLY like him.

Becky

 

[DeLamar.J]

Ok, I think this will clear things up. I dont throw anything away that I learn, i just will never apply training that I think does not suit my own personal preference. I could give a damn about the history, and nonsense of that sort. I care about today, and tomorrow, and the days to follow. So I train for now, and the future, in the way I feel will be appropriate for real combat in these modern times. And someone mentioned that some people cant figure out the concepts of a rising block after a year? Then they need to try a different hobby, or check back into retard school. I am a hard core realist. I dont care for anything that will not help me. You figure I just jumped into some schools, and jumped out without learning the basics? Funny, thats an awful big assumption being that you were not there, and I was, and I know what I learned. My style is Collective COMBAT studies...nothing else. Combat, fighting and survival. I dont care who did what in the past, nor for the traditions, politics, foreign language, etc. So maybe I am not even a martial artist...LMAO. Im a soldier. And warfare is my way. Now, war is about history, but its a whole different area. It includes using the mind as well as the body. So to all who dont understand, go practice you little kata, and make sure your hand is on your hip, and everyone thinks you look real swell.
For you may never understand, but long as we are all happy, who cares.
do it your way, Ill do it mine.
By the way, no one can get a black belt in a year unless its a 1. a McDojo, or 2. they train from sunrise to sunset everyday, all day.

Sonds like you march to the beat of your own drum. Thats good, just make sure not to shut everything out. I like your attitude, but be sure to also keep an open mind.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

I heavily disagree with this. I don't really want to push to agruement, but on my opinion, Bruce Lee was one of the greatest martial artists to have ever lived. I feel I ought to defend my role model and the person who got me in martial arts in the first place. First off, the philosophy behind JKD is VERY good. If you limit yourself to one style, a person of many styles could easily beat you. I found that out all to well when I was ONLY a taekwondoist. Do I like JKD as a style? No, not really. However, the philosophy did not match the style.

As far as black belt flashy tournament crap goes, most of it wouldn't work in real combat. Would you really try to do a jumping spinning roundhouse kick in a real fight? Uh.....no. Sure it looks nice in a performance, but a swift front snap kick to the balls will always get you out of a REAL fight (I know from experience). It doesn't look pretty but it works. That's what Bruce was getting at.

As far as mastering the basics of a style, let's go over the basics first: kick, punch, block, and stance. TADA! Sure there are little differences between styles, but not a whole lot. the only exception would be Judo, Aikido, and Jujutsu. I'm thinking of taking those after ninjutsu in case I get knocked down in a fight. We all (well most of us anyway) have 2 arms, 2 legs, 2 knees, and 2 elbows to strike with. In your first art when you are just starting in the world of martial arts you learn block, punch, kick, and stance. That, to me, is the basics. My motto is kick the guy in the balls, then it's over.

If you don't want me to make anymore such speeches, please don't talk bad about Bruce Lee. Believe it or not, some people care and are sensitive to that, especially if like me, they REALLY like him.

Becky

that statement alone shows that you understand very little about what makes up the basics.

As far as Bruce Lee is concerned.......He was a Movie star that was pretty good at martial arts.

 

[jdinca]

Ok, I think this will clear things up. I dont throw anything away that I learn, i just will never apply training that I think does not suit my own personal preference. I could give a damn about the history, and nonsense of that sort. I care about today, and tomorrow, and the days to follow. So I train for now, and the future, in the way I feel will be appropriate for real combat in these modern times. And someone mentioned that some people cant figure out the concepts of a rising block after a year? Then they need to try a different hobby, Edited to conform to MT's Rules. I am a hard core realist. I dont care for anything that will not help me. You figure I just jumped into some schools, and jumped out without learning the basics? Funny, thats an awful big assumption being that you were not there, and I was, and I know what I learned. My style is Collective COMBAT studies...nothing else. Combat, fighting and survival. I dont care who did what in the past, nor for the traditions, politics, foreign language, etc. So maybe I am not even a martial artist...LMAO. Im a soldier. And warfare is my way. Now, war is about history, but its a whole different area. It includes using the mind as well as the body. So to all who dont understand, go practice you little kata, and make sure your hand is on your hip, and everyone thinks you look real swell.
For you may never understand, but long as we are all happy, who cares.
do it your way, Ill do it mine.
By the way, no one can get a black belt in a year unless its a 1. a McDojo, or 2. they train from sunrise to sunset everyday, all day.

Hmm, you seem to be a little grumpy today. There's nothing wrong with being a "hard core realist", but please don't put down those that like the tradition. If someone put you down for not liking tradition or questioning your training, I think the above clears the air.

You probably aren't a martial artist in the traditional sense. It certainly doesn't mean that you don't know how to take care of yourself, it just means that your training doesn't really go past the physical aspect, except maybe for discipline. So be it. As for your claim of being a soldier, are you in an environment where you feel that you're going to need your skills and training? The vast majority of martial artists will never use their skills in an attack situation. Self defense is extremely important but it's only one reason people are involved in MA. Those that may, may want to pursue just the type of training that you do. Traditional martial arts is more than just learning how to kick someone's butt. Whether you like it or not, or agree with it or not, that's well established.

I have a problem with those that skip through systems, never truly learing the system. Other's think that's fine. What you study is obviously a mix of many different styles. For me, that can qualify it as a system. It's a pretty loose term. Were you to jump from there to say, Wushu, before having a truly in depth knowledge of what your current system encompasses, then I would put you in that "skipping" category.

I wholehearteldy agree with your last point.

Now, I'm off to work on my kata, it's been giving me some problems. :EG:

 

[green meanie]

Ok, I think this will clear things up. I dont throw anything away that I learn, i just will never apply training that I think does not suit my own personal preference. I could give a damn about the history, and nonsense of that sort. I care about today, and tomorrow, and the days to follow. So I train for now, and the future, in the way I feel will be appropriate for real combat in these modern times. And someone mentioned that some people cant figure out the concepts of a rising block after a year? Then they need to try a different hobby, Edited to conform to MT's Rules. I am a hard core realist. I dont care for anything that will not help me. You figure I just jumped into some schools, and jumped out without learning the basics? Funny, thats an awful big assumption being that you were not there, and I was, and I know what I learned. My style is Collective COMBAT studies...nothing else. Combat, fighting and survival. I dont care who did what in the past, nor for the traditions, politics, foreign language, etc. So maybe I am not even a martial artist...LMAO. Im a soldier. And warfare is my way. Now, war is about history, but its a whole different area. It includes using the mind as well as the body. So to all who dont understand, go practice you little kata, and make sure your hand is on your hip, and everyone thinks you look real swell.
For you may never understand, but long as we are all happy, who cares.
do it your way, Ill do it mine.
By the way, no one can get a black belt in a year unless its a 1. a McDojo, or 2. they train from sunrise to sunset everyday, all day.

This is my new favorite post. :wink:

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Ok, I think this will clear things up. I dont throw anything away that I learn, i just will never apply training that I think does not suit my own personal preference. I could give a damn about the history, and nonsense of that sort. I care about today, and tomorrow, and the days to follow. So I train for now, and the future, in the way I feel will be appropriate for real combat in these modern times. And someone mentioned that some people cant figure out the concepts of a rising block after a year? Then they need to try a different hobby, or check back into retard school. I am a hard core realist. I dont care for anything that will not help me. You figure I just jumped into some schools, and jumped out without learning the basics? Funny, thats an awful big assumption being that you were not there, and I was, and I know what I learned. My style is Collective COMBAT studies...nothing else. Combat, fighting and survival. I dont care who did what in the past, nor for the traditions, politics, foreign language, etc. So maybe I am not even a martial artist...LMAO. Im a soldier. And warfare is my way. Now, war is about history, but its a whole different area. It includes using the mind as well as the body. So to all who dont understand, go practice you little kata, and make sure your hand is on your hip, and everyone thinks you look real swell.
For you may never understand, but long as we are all happy, who cares.
do it your way, Ill do it mine.
By the way, no one can get a black belt in a year unless its a 1. a McDojo, or 2. they train from sunrise to sunset everyday, all day.

so by what you're saying......you have 1 year of experience 10 times over, or you are one of those exceptional martial artists that just sees the crap and skims by it.

everything you learn in martial arts you learn for a reason........and i mean "martial" arts.....not the flashy spinning jumping flying mega heel kicks.

any knucklehead can roll around on the ground and call it martial arts.

 

[muffin_cup_of_death]

First of all, im not a 1 year experience 10 X or whatever. I will break it down for you so you can esily understand.

I started in Goju-Shorei Okinawan Karate. time studied: 1 yr, rank Brown Belt
so I have a total of 1 year experience.

I then moved on to studying JKD. Time studied: 9yrs.


I then studied Kyokushinkai/Budo Karate under a direct student of the late Mas Oyama, who was the only american to pass in Japan.
Time Studied: 4 months
This training was a program that I was in that trained non stop everyday from 7am-5pm, and I worked a night job as deliveryman from 5pm-1am to pay my way. www.budokaratehouse.com if you are wondering.


I then studied at a school in AZ called Berstens House of Karate which taught numerous arts. Its core was Chinese Kempo, but it also taught Judo, BJJ, and Kickboxing.
Time studied: 1 yr. Rank: 3rd Brown
I attended class there as a live in student, and assistant instructor, so I basically trained, or taught 7 days a week from 8am-10pm

I have trained with many other indys from many arts, incl. JKD, TKD, Ninjutsu, Shaolin Kung Fu, BJJ,And MMA. But not in a formal school, mostly at our homes, or in our own schools.

I officially formed my system Aug. of 2002 when i opened a training facility in Pennsylvania. I operated for 1 yr and a half. I had approx. 27 students, all of whom loved my methods, and training techniques. I incorporated everything I felt as neccesary for combat, and self defense.
My dojo is now my home.

And every school I attended I didnt just cut and run...I did not agree with the ways the places were run...they were corrupt, and many of the owners were not good people. But I always stayed as long as possible trying to fit in...but it just wasnt for me...if you for say took up soccer, but at heart you were always a football natural...and you hated the sport, hated the coach, would you wanna stay? You may love to play the game, and compete, and be athletic, but everything else ruins it, you wouldnt continue the agony. Thats what it was like for me. I tried, and it wasnt for me. I am where I have always wanted to be now. Please respect that. I am sorry if I come off as a prick. I will try to tone it down. And to the one who replied to Beuaty in the sai about not knowing the basics, well you are wrong. thats my wife, and shes a brilliant MArtial artist, almost 6 years of training, and an official Black belt ranking in TKD, she knows what shes talking about.

thats all 4 now

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

I think it might be better if you'd say, 'Please respect that. I am sorry if I come off argumentative' or 'Please respect that. I am sorry if I come off as if I were in a bad mood' or 'Please respect that. I am sorry if I come off like I've been Grinched'. That other word's a bit unsavory or 'salty'.

 

[Navarre]

Isn't it fun being Moderator?

I'd like to think we could all have a respectful discussion, at least in the General forum if not The Study (I try to never go there).

 

[BlackCatBonz]

First of all, im not a 1 year experience 10 X or whatever. I will break it down for you so you can esily understand.

1.I started in Goju-Shorei Okinawan Karate. time studied: 1 yr, rank Brown Belt
so I have a total of 1 year experience.

2.I then moved on to studying JKD. Time studied: 9yrs.


3. I then studied Kyokushinkai/Budo Karate under a direct student of the late Mas Oyama, who was the only american to pass in Japan.
Time Studied: 4 months
This training was a program that I was in that trained non stop everyday from 7am-5pm, and I worked a night job as deliveryman from 5pm-1am to pay my way. www.budokaratehouse.com if you are wondering.


4.I then studied at a school in AZ called Berstens House of Karate which taught numerous arts. Its core was Chinese Kempo, but it also taught Judo, BJJ, and Kickboxing.
Time studied: 1 yr. Rank: 3rd Brown
I attended class there as a live in student, and assistant instructor, so I basically trained, or taught 7 days a week from 8am-10pm

I have trained with many other indys from many arts, incl. JKD, TKD, Ninjutsu, Shaolin Kung Fu, BJJ,And MMA. But not in a formal school, mostly at our homes, or in our own schools.

5. I officially formed my system Aug. of 2002 when i opened a training facility in Pennsylvania. I operated for 1 yr and a half. I had approx. 27 students, all of whom loved my methods, and training techniques. I incorporated everything I felt as neccesary for combat, and self defense.
My dojo is now my home.

And every school I attended I didnt just cut and run...I did not agree with the ways the places were run...they were corrupt, and many of the owners were not good people. But I always stayed as long as possible trying to fit in...but it just wasnt for me...if you for say took up soccer, but at heart you were always a football natural...and you hated the sport, hated the coach, would you wanna stay? You may love to play the game, and compete, and be athletic, but everything else ruins it, you wouldnt continue the agony. Thats what it was like for me. I tried, and it wasnt for me. I am where I have always wanted to be now. Please respect that. I am sorry if I come off as a prick. I will try to tone it down.

6.And to the one who replied to Beuaty in the sai about not knowing the basics, well you are wrong. thats my wife, and shes a brilliant MArtial artist, almost 6 years of training, and an official Black belt ranking in TKD, she knows what shes talking about.

thats all 4 now

ive numbered the points i want to address to make it easier to follow.
i am in no way trying to fraudbust.......i am merely stating my case.
if it offends, it is not intended......but c'est la vie.

1. if you made brown belt rank in Okinawan Goju in one year.....you must have been one hell of a student or had a crappy teacher.
1 year in goju and you would hardly touch on any kind of advanced subjects, let alone be able to sort through the mucky muck.
Sanchin by itself represents a lifetime of study.

2. Under whom did you study or do you study JKD.....you say 9 years but dont really mention who your teachers are. Many people that "study" jeet kune do usually mean they've read "tao of jeet kune do" a bunch of times, and watched a bunch of instructional tapes.

3. KyokuShin Kai is another tough system. 4 months isnt really enough time to gain any real knowledge. Its great though, that the teacher was a direct student of Oyama sensei.

4. Another year spent earning a brown belt in multiple disciplines.

5. After figuring out the secrets of martial arts you form your own system. everyone loves it. You've made 3rd degree black belt out of 2 brown belts.

6. 19 years old and 6 years of training hardly makes for a brilliant martial artist.

if i come off like a jerk........oopsy

 

[kroh]

I heavily disagree with this. I don't really want to push to agruement, but on my opinion, Bruce Lee was one of the greatest martial artists to have ever lived. I feel I ought to defend my role model and the person who got me in martial arts in the first place. First off, the philosophy behind JKD is VERY good. If you limit yourself to one style, a person of many styles could easily beat you. I found that out all to well when I was ONLY a taekwondoist. Do I like JKD as a style? No, not really. However, the philosophy did not match the style.

Could you please expand on this as the end of the thought is a bit ambiguous and left me with that monkey on a computer feeling ( me being the monkey. )

The middle part however is something I tend to have issue with as people tend to sensationalize things at times. While I respect that Bruce Lee is your role model, there are MANY people who do what he did. There is a Japanese swordsman that lived a long time ago that wrote this book. Every one who knows anything about swordsmanship from Japan or even the way the Japanese do business know who I am talking about. My jujutsu instructor used to tell us all the time when we would practice sword method ...

"There have been many people before and after that guy who do what he did... He just had better advertising..."

Focusing on the teaching of some one to learn the lesson is the way to learn something. Focusing on the person instead of the lesson is nothing more than idol worship and gets in the way of the lesson. It's good to have heroes...but try and focus on what they stood for rather than the person themselves.

You also mentioned that a person who cross trains would always beat a person who only works in one system. So what you're saying is that the person who trains in four or five different styles that each have cirriculums of hundreds of moves each (which take hundreds of hours to make combat effective. How many hours a week do you train?) can beat the professional boxer who trains like it is a religion? I'm finding fault with this logic. The average person (the average person cannot train four to eight hours a day in combat dynamics because most schools and training partners can't accomadate you...so if it doesn't apply then you don't fit in this categry) trains three to five classes a week for an hour a class. If that is the case...during the course of a year...a five classer only accumulates about 260 training hours. If one martial art requires that amount of time to get good at...wouldn't you be slowing your training time ( and in some cases stiflling it) by cross training as much as you claim? Please explain how you came to the conclusion that a cross trained MA-ist will always beat the guy who trains in one system?

Im a soldier

Who do you serve with, if you don't mind me asking?

Regards,
Walt

 

[Gemini]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Don Goodwin
-MT Moderator-

 

[FearlessFreep]

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Not until I hear about the solider named "muffin"

 

[MJS]

First of all, im not a 1 year experience 10 X or whatever. I will break it down for you so you can esily understand.

I started in Goju-Shorei Okinawan Karate. time studied: 1 yr, rank Brown Belt
so I have a total of 1 year experience.

I then moved on to studying JKD. Time studied: 9yrs.


I then studied Kyokushinkai/Budo Karate under a direct student of the late Mas Oyama, who was the only american to pass in Japan.
Time Studied: 4 months
This training was a program that I was in that trained non stop everyday from 7am-5pm, and I worked a night job as deliveryman from 5pm-1am to pay my way. www.budokaratehouse.com if you are wondering.


I then studied at a school in AZ called Berstens House of Karate which taught numerous arts. Its core was Chinese Kempo, but it also taught Judo, BJJ, and Kickboxing.
Time studied: 1 yr. Rank: 3rd Brown
I attended class there as a live in student, and assistant instructor, so I basically trained, or taught 7 days a week from 8am-10pm

I have trained with many other indys from many arts, incl. JKD, TKD, Ninjutsu, Shaolin Kung Fu, BJJ,And MMA. But not in a formal school, mostly at our homes, or in our own schools.

I officially formed my system Aug. of 2002 when i opened a training facility in Pennsylvania. I operated for 1 yr and a half. I had approx. 27 students, all of whom loved my methods, and training techniques. I incorporated everything I felt as neccesary for combat, and self defense.
My dojo is now my home.

And every school I attended I didnt just cut and run...I did not agree with the ways the places were run...they were corrupt, and many of the owners were not good people. But I always stayed as long as possible trying to fit in...but it just wasnt for me...if you for say took up soccer, but at heart you were always a football natural...and you hated the sport, hated the coach, would you wanna stay? You may love to play the game, and compete, and be athletic, but everything else ruins it, you wouldnt continue the agony. Thats what it was like for me. I tried, and it wasnt for me. I am where I have always wanted to be now. Please respect that. I am sorry if I come off as a prick. I will try to tone it down. And to the one who replied to Beuaty in the sai about not knowing the basics, well you are wrong. thats my wife, and shes a brilliant MArtial artist, almost 6 years of training, and an official Black belt ranking in TKD, she knows what shes talking about.

thats all 4 now

It seems to me sir, and I think that this is where a few others are coming from as well...you have studied quite a few arts, for very little time. The longest was the JKD which was 9yrs as you claim. It seems as if you're getting high rank in a short amount of time, which does not necessarily mean that one has a good understanding of the system. Therefore, your opening remark seems to be raising some questions.

In closing, I think that the discussions would be much more productive on a calmer level.

Mike

 

[Cryozombie]

thats my wife, and shes a brilliant MArtial artist, almost 6 years of training, and an official Black belt ranking in TKD, she knows what shes talking about.

Hey there Muffin, I have a Question, I need some clarification... in another thread you commented that Traditional Martial Artists and Tournament based Martial Artists are all a Joke... but here you are saying your Wife (whom I have nothing against, she's a great member here) Knows what she is talking about... Because she studied TaeKwonDo and has a black belt.

But Tae Kwon Do is a traditional art, AND a tournament based one too...

So which is it? Is she brillaint and does she know what she is talking about, or is she a Joke because her training is in TKD???

:idunno:

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Hey there Muffin, I have a Question, I need some clarification... in another thread you commented that Traditional Martial Artists and Tournament based Martial Artists are all a Joke... but here you are saying your Wife (whom I have nothing against, she's a great member here) Knows what she is talking about... Because she studied TaeKwonDo and has a black belt.

But Tae Kwon Do is a traditional art, AND a tournament based one too...

So which is it? Is she brillaint and does she know what she is talking about, or is she a Joke because her training is in TKD???

:idunno:

excellent questions, technopunk........btw, way cool avatar.

 

[Henderson]

there are endless points that must be sharpened before one can be complete.

so I am proficient from any range, any position, and ready for any situation that can arise.

Hmmm.....these two statements seem to contradict each other.

I even learned how to make everyday legal items into lethal weapons you can carry at all times, and never get in trouble for. Example: ink pens, pencils, lighters, key chains, and keys, letter openers, salt ( for blinding) and anything else you can pick up and stab, bash, throw, or use as a makeshift weapon

Figured that one out already, huh? You put 'em in your pocket. Shhh.



Respect paid when it is earned,

Frank

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i learned that stuff from ninjer mags.

 

[green meanie]

If a challenge match comes out of all of this I want an invite.