6 year old first dan??? whiskey tango foxtrot!

[Deleted member 39746]

maybe. But I think she could take most other 6 year olds.

Ip man child edition much? (and i didn't just have a imagination of that)

 

[TSDTexan]

1st dan at 6.... 4th dan at 12????

 

[TSDTexan]

maybe. But I think she could take most other 6 year olds.

hm.mmm... maybe.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Haha. It’s not my fault Im the only person around here who is able to distinguish my desire for something to be exceptional from a rational evaluation of that thing.

It’s like the little girl in the OP. She is not good at karate. Her parents probably cannot see that. they want her to be exceptional so bad, their desire clouds their judgment.

In the very same way, endgame is just... really bad. . Put it this way. If endgame were one of the first MCU movies, there might not be 22 of them.

Okay. That is the most impressive thread refocus I've seen.

 

[WaterGal]

well... scrolling through the clubs Facebook wall... there are quite a few very young kids being recognized as first dan black belt. none of the post use the term Jr. Blackbelt.

That could be a PR type thing, figuring that most people outside the school don't know the difference. We just say "black belt" in our social media posts too, even for the poom rank kids (not 6-year olds, but we've got 9 and 10 year old poom rank kids). But their certificates from KKW say "1st Poom", and we tell the students and parents what that means.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not something i have looked into that well, all i know is without a specific belt structure (which does the same thing just in a official manner) you would just group people up based on seniority and thus implied knowledge and ability and actual ability/knowledge. Has its pros and cons i must say.

I would go out on a limb and say karate and maybe kung fu started the trend of belts? And i think modern karate is relatively knew around the 1890's-1950's?

By all means correct me if i am wrong, im iffy on my historical knowledge on the styles and their inner workings.

In many arts, prior to the belt system, there were just three levels: student, instructor (certificate of license), and something akin to heir-apparent (certificate of complete transmission).

EDIT: Belts were introduced by Jigoro Kano in Judo (based on a similar structure from scholastics, IIRC). Originally, it was just white and black.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So when Kano began utilizing the Black Belt do you know what the criteria for it was?

As I recall, it was something to indicate competence (rather than mastery) - to differentiate the "experienced" players from the relative beginners.

 

[dvcochran]

Child + black belt = meaningless.

McDojo.

If you had expanded and said 6 years old with only two years experience I would Agree with your first sentence.
If you are implying the school/organization listed is a McDojo, it would appear true from the article.

 

[dvcochran]

I see and agree with your point.....but their school....they can rank them how they want I guess.

I suppose you can argue free will and all, but doesn't this concern you for the impression it leaves for MA in general? I can see so many non MA people reading this and saying "how cute".

How would we feel if colleges started awarding under-graduate degrees to 6 year old's? I disdain the mysticism that used to be waived in some MA's but if we as a MA society do not hold certain things to a higher standard where does the bar stop?
Just a very sad and I am guessing parent motivated article.

 

[Bruce7]

My opinion has changed on this issue as I have matured. Putting a black belt on a child doesn’t affect me at all. If a student meets a school’s requirements for black belt, give them a black belt. Who cares? If it devalues the training you (general you) have put in, that’s on you (general you).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

Their might be good reasons not to start MA at age 3 or 4.
Most of the great Korean martial artist started at age 10 or older.
Most great America martial artist started in the Army, Air Force, Navy, or Marines as young men.
I see no advantage in starting MA at age 3 or 4.
My granddaughter is an excellent gymnast at age 9.
If she wanted to train in MA, in one year, she would be better than the 6 year old black at age 10 in martial arts.
At a young age gymnast or dance teaches young people to control their bodies.
I believe very young child can not understand what MA are about.

I know for fact with only 2 years training at age 18, I was better than a 18 year old with 12 years of training at tiger rock.
I had developed my body and mind throw sports , so when I started at age 16 I could not get enough training.
I still did sports, but every minute I was not doing sports, I was practicing MA.
The 18 year 4th dan does nothing but stand around and when she shows her technique it is sub par.

6 year old black belts a terrible idea.

 

[Bruce7]

Their might be good reasons not to start MA at age 3 or 4.
Most of the great Korean martial artist started at age 10 or older.
Most great America martial artist started in the Army, Air Force, Navy, or Marines as young men.
I see no advantage in starting MA at age 3 or 4.
My granddaughter is an excellent gymnast at age 9.
If she wanted to train in MA, in one year, she would be better than the 6 year old black at age 10 in martial arts.
At a young age gymnast or dance teaches young people to control their bodies.
I believe very young child can not understand what MA are about.

I know for fact with only 2 years training at age 18, I was better than a 18 year old with 12 years of training at tiger rock.
I had developed my body and mind throw sports , so when I started at age 16 I could not get enough training.
I still did sports, but every minute I was not doing sports, I was practicing MA.
The 18 year 4th dan does nothing but stand around and when she shows her technique it is sub par.

6 year old black belts a terrible idea.

 

[dvcochran]

I hear lots of people say that child black belts “cheapen” something, but what do you feel is really cheapened (outside of your own mind)? I don’t think anyone is equating the ability of a 6 year old black belt with that of an adult black belt. And I don’t think the majority of non-martial artists care about anyone’s black belt.

Having said that, I’m personally not a fan of belt mills. I use a poom (junior black belt) for kids in my school. I will say that I have seen many kid black belts over the years that had far better technique than adults with the same amount of training.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have pondered this for a few since reading the original post, along with the responses. Most of the comments I've found thoughtful and with merit, even if I am unsure whether I agree with them.

Yes, I am happy she is training, and that she has committed the time to it she has. That is somewhat rare for a child her age, and it does make me wonder how much her parents pressed her to continue.

As for the cheapening of something that should be honored and respected, I am keenly aware of how that happens constantly, in numerous areas beyond the realm of martial arts. From my perspective, if the requirements met were those put forth at the beginning of training, and not modified to take account for her level of physical and mental maturity, then I will accept that she has achieved dan rank at that school. If those running the school are OK with it for their school and system, I will not judge.

Does this mean she should be recognized as holding dan rank elsewhere? I don't know. I personally would struggle accepting her lining up with black belts at a seminar or such, knowing 40 techniques learned over two years, when there are lesser belts with a much more in-depth knowledge and understanding in their chosen systems, and much more time in training.

I feel compelled to stress that when I say taking account of her maturity, I mean just that. I have no problems with modifying curricula for people with specific impediments, regardless of age. In my opinion, doing so can be meaningful and helpful in those cases.

Agree, but none of us consider, at least younger age, an impediment do we? There are elements of what I consider training at the BB level that preclude a 6 year old.
This is one of the rare occasions I will support stars and stripes on a belt. If a school cannot find another vehicle to keep people and kids interested in class and have to resort to awards, AND that keeps them coming, all the better.
Someone mention Poom belts. Where does it stop? Does she get her 2nd Dan at 8-9 years old? And so on? Non sensical.

 

[CB Jones]

I suppose you can argue free will and all, but doesn't this concern you for the impression it leaves for MA in general? I can see so many non MA people reading this and saying "how cute".

I can definitely see your point but in the grand scheme of things this is nothing but a small blurp that most people will probably never see.

 

[Bruce7]

Is this the same school.? If so, the testing seems more for fun than to demonstrate applied skill.

That is so bad I don't what to say.

 

[skribs]

well... scrolling through the clubs Facebook wall... there are quite a few very young kids being recognized as first dan black belt. none of the post use the term Jr. Blackbelt.

KKW gives "poom" to people under 16 and "dan" to people over 16.

My Master gives a black belt and calls them "dan", but their certificate and ID say "poom". He encourages them by saying it's not their age, but their knowledge that matters.

 

[Bruce7]

maybe. But I think she could take most other 6 year olds.

You have not seen my grandchildren at age 6.

 

[dvcochran]

KKW gives "poom" to people under 16 and "dan" to people over 16.

My Master gives a black belt and calls them "dan", but their certificate and ID say "poom". He encourages them by saying it's not their age, but their knowledge that matters.

Does your Master give Poom BB's to 6 year old's?

 

[dvcochran]

You have not seen my grandchildren at age 6.

Steve, I am sure that was meant as funny. But even if that were true why would it matter? They are 6 years old for goodness sake. Let them be kids.

 

[CB Jones]

Child + black belt = meaningless.

McDojo.

After watching the videos...let me clarify my disagreement.

I disagree with an assumotion of any school that gives black belts to youth are mcdojos. I feel before someone labels a school they should have some knowledge or proof of poor instruction.

If you were referring just to that school as a mcdojo....ok I can kinda see it.

 

[Steve]

I suppose you can argue free will and all, but doesn't this concern you for the impression it leaves for MA in general? I can see so many non MA people reading this and saying "how cute".

How would we feel if colleges started awarding under-graduate degrees to 6 year old's? I disdain the mysticism that used to be waived in some MA's but if we as a MA society do not hold certain things to a higher standard where does the bar stop?
Just a very sad and I am guessing parent motivated article.

Not all college degrees are equal. There are reasons why degrees from MIT, Cal Tech, or Harvard are so highly regarded, and why others are not.

If a college started giving degrees to 6 year olds, so what? That college would be undermining the value of only their degree . not degrees at large .