6 year old first dan??? whiskey tango foxtrot!

[Deleted member 39746]

There's a show I love (and actually started watching it because someone in my TKD class recommended it) called Supernatural.

Threads doomed for now, hes brought up the flaws in Supernatural, pack up its a goner.

 

[Tez3]

Threads doomed for now, hes brought up the flaws in Supernatural, pack up its a goner.

I'll post spoilers for Avengers Endgame.

 

[Steve]

Let's say you started taking the fictional Skribs Kwon Do twenty years ago. It's the best martial art ever, in my completely unbiased opinion. It took you 15 years to earn your black belt. You were the third black belt ever in the art, after me (the founder) and my first student. 15 long years, in which you had to learn everything under the sun, including groundfighting, take-downs, seventeen different clinches, joint locks, joint breaks, pressure points, a hundred striking combinations, and a dozen forms. Your black belt test had a fitness portion that would rival the NFL combine, three full days on techniques and concepts, and enough written essays on training, teaching, and self defense law to satisfy a triple major in bio-engineering, education, and criminal law.

Now, 20 years after you started, and 5 years after you go through all of this, I take a 5 year old student who has been training with me for 3 months, I give her a test that consists of 5 punches, 3 kicks, and breaking a piece of balsa wood, and she gets her black belt!

On the one hand, you still have all of the other stuff - the knowledge, the fitness, and the technique. That's what you care about, that's what others will care about when they see your technique.

On the other hand, if Gerry is looking for a school to take his daughter to, and he sees that you're a 1st degree black belt in Skribs Kwon Do, and then looks up a video on Skribs Kwon Do and sees a 5-year-old 1st degree who knows 8 techniques, he's going to wonder what you can teach her.

This is what the cheapening of the black belt means. (And yes, the story is super-exaggerated to highlight my point). It doesn't mean anything for you, until it does. It doesn't affect you, until the reputation catches up to you. Even worse, if this girl can get her black belt in 3 months, why did it take you 15 years?

Another way of looking at it is the opposite of power creep in TV and video games. There's a show I love (and actually started watching it because someone in my TKD class recommended it) called Supernatural. There are some monsters in the first few seasons that are incredibly difficult for the heroes to fight. They may spend an entire episode on one of these monsters, and it's something that has them scared witless the entire episode.

In the later seasons, there may be a dozen of these monsters, which are supercharged by some magical beast, and they're just cannon fodder to be mowed through like lawn gnomes. They're no longer scary, and there's no real impact.

It's kind of the same effect. If a black belt is really difficult to earn, and has very stringent guidelines on how to earn it, a black belt is something that generates a healthy fear and admiration. But if a black belt is basically a participation trophy, then the reaction is "meh". And even if you had to go through those stringent guidelines, people see it through the lens of "meh" because of what they've seen others have to go through to get their belt.

This post is such an interesting contrast to the considerable body of posts on this forum downplaying the significance of a black belt. I think some of those outraged are also some of the ones who have posted statements like, “a first Dan is really just a beginner.” Or, “a black belt only means you know the basics.”

 

[Steve]

I'll post spoilers for Avengers Endgame.

Not a spoiler, but endgame was a bad movie.

 

[Steve]

Is this the same school.? If so, the testing seems more for fun than to demonstrate applied skill.

 

[Buka]

This post is such an interesting contrast to the considerable body of posts on this forum downplaying the significance of a black belt. I think some of those outraged are also some of the ones who have posted statements like, “a first Dan is really just a beginner.” Or, “a black belt only means you know the basics.”

Let me ask you this, brother, so suspend all reality for a moment. What if - and yes I know the shortcomings of "what ifs", but what if BJJ suddenly gave out Black Belts in a couple of years. And the ability of those Black Belts was on physical par with that child shown?

 

[Tez3]

Not a spoiler, but endgame was a bad movie.

If a film is entertaining then it's never a bad film.

 

[Steve]

Let me ask you this, brother, so suspend all reality for a moment. What if - and yes I know the shortcomings of "what ifs", but what if BJJ suddenly gave out Black Belts in a couple of years. And the ability of those Black Belts was on physical par with that child shown?

Those dudes would have a very hard time competing against the other black belts at the pan ams or mundials. I like the way BJJ does it, with completely different belts for kids. But the main point is BJJ is self calibrating. Schools who sell belts, or on the other side, sand bag their students, gain a reputation.

 

[Steve]

If a film is entertaining then it's never a bad film.

Err.... okay. I thought it was a real stinker. Like Last Jedi bad.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Err.... okay. I thought it was a real stinker. Like Last Jedi bad.

Yes, but you’re just objectively wrong. It’s okay. I still like you even though I now know not to pay any attention to your opinion of movies.

 

[jobo]

Let me ask you this, brother, so suspend all reality for a moment. What if - and yes I know the shortcomings of "what ifs", but what if BJJ suddenly gave out Black Belts in a couple of years. And the ability of those Black Belts was on physical par with that child shown?

there only going to be on par with her physically if they were also only 6, il say it again she is only 6, 6 year old dont play soccer like a 20yo or ride bikes like a tour rider , they generally haven't developed much in the way of ballance and co ordination yet, which is one of the reasons they fall over quite a lot

 

[Jaeimseu]

Let's say you started taking the fictional Skribs Kwon Do twenty years ago. It's the best martial art ever, in my completely unbiased opinion. It took you 15 years to earn your black belt. You were the third black belt ever in the art, after me (the founder) and my first student. 15 long years, in which you had to learn everything under the sun, including groundfighting, take-downs, seventeen different clinches, joint locks, joint breaks, pressure points, a hundred striking combinations, and a dozen forms. Your black belt test had a fitness portion that would rival the NFL combine, three full days on techniques and concepts, and enough written essays on training, teaching, and self defense law to satisfy a triple major in bio-engineering, education, and criminal law.

Now, 20 years after you started, and 5 years after you go through all of this, I take a 5 year old student who has been training with me for 3 months, I give her a test that consists of 5 punches, 3 kicks, and breaking a piece of balsa wood, and she gets her black belt!

On the one hand, you still have all of the other stuff - the knowledge, the fitness, and the technique. That's what you care about, that's what others will care about when they see your technique.

On the other hand, if Gerry is looking for a school to take his daughter to, and he sees that you're a 1st degree black belt in Skribs Kwon Do, and then looks up a video on Skribs Kwon Do and sees a 5-year-old 1st degree who knows 8 techniques, he's going to wonder what you can teach her.

This is what the cheapening of the black belt means. (And yes, the story is super-exaggerated to highlight my point). It doesn't mean anything for you, until it does. It doesn't affect you, until the reputation catches up to you. Even worse, if this girl can get her black belt in 3 months, why did it take you 15 years?

Another way of looking at it is the opposite of power creep in TV and video games. There's a show I love (and actually started watching it because someone in my TKD class recommended it) called Supernatural. There are some monsters in the first few seasons that are incredibly difficult for the heroes to fight. They may spend an entire episode on one of these monsters, and it's something that has them scared witless the entire episode.

In the later seasons, there may be a dozen of these monsters, which are supercharged by some magical beast, and they're just cannon fodder to be mowed through like lawn gnomes. They're no longer scary, and there's no real impact.

It's kind of the same effect. If a black belt is really difficult to earn, and has very stringent guidelines on how to earn it, a black belt is something that generates a healthy fear and admiration. But if a black belt is basically a participation trophy, then the reaction is "meh". And even if you had to go through those stringent guidelines, people see it through the lens of "meh" because of what they've seen others have to go through to get their belt.

Here’s the deal. That girl’s school doesn’t think it’s a belt mill. The crappy black belts people talk about don’t think they’re crappy black belts. I’ve heard plenty of people who I think are awful black belts scream about how standards need to be higher.

People like to think, “At my school...” and imagine that all the other schools are belt mills. Most people aren’t very good. This includes black belts in pretty much any art where competitive fighting is not part of ranking.

My opinion remains that the concept of “black belt” is only cheapened in the eyes of people who don’t know any better.


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[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Not a spoiler, but endgame was a bad movie.

I didn't end up watching it last week...will hopefully get around to it soon so I can argue with you about that.

 

[WaterGal]

Err.... okay. I thought it was a real stinker. Like Last Jedi bad.

Last Jedi bad? So you mean it was good?

 

[WaterGal]

Is this the same school.? If so, the testing seems more for fun than to demonstrate applied skill.

While I can't say I'm particularly impressed by the skill level demonstrated here.... I honestly can't get angry about kids not being great at martial arts. If they're having fun and getting some benefit out of it, that's something. It's unfortunate they're not getting better instruction, but I'm sure they're all doing their best.

 

[Steve]

Yes, but you’re just objectively wrong. It’s okay. I still like you even though I now know not to pay any attention to your opinion of movies.

Haha. It’s not my fault Im the only person around here who is able to distinguish my desire for something to be exceptional from a rational evaluation of that thing.

It’s like the little girl in the OP. She is not good at karate. Her parents probably cannot see that. they want her to be exceptional so bad, their desire clouds their judgment.

In the very same way, endgame is just... really bad. . Put it this way. If endgame were one of the first MCU movies, there might not be 22 of them.

 

[WaterGal]

there is a thing that has been around a while.. Jr. Blackbelt. I would rather agree with awarding a jr. bb than assigning the 1st dan designation.

the article acts as if she is the first 6 year old 1st dan bb in the UK. I would disagree with that equivalence of what she was given with the idea of what Yudansha means.

It's possible that she does have a Jr Black Belt rank, but that her parents or the poorly paid local journalist who wrote the article didn't know that. Lots of news outlets like to write feel-good local human-interest puff pieces in the format of "local [insert career/hobby] is the first [insert demographic] to win [some honor]!" I don't think they exhaustively research that kind of article; the point is to make newspaper-buyers feel like something nice is going on in their town, and as long as it does that, that's the important thing.

 

[TSDTexan]

This post is such an interesting contrast to the considerable body of posts on this forum downplaying the significance of a black belt. I think some of those outraged are also some of the ones who have posted statements like, “a first Dan is really just a beginner.” Or, “a black belt only means you know the basics.”

her basics are seriously in need of help.

 

[TSDTexan]

It's possible that she does have a Jr Black Belt rank, but that her parents or the poorly paid local journalist who wrote the article didn't know that. Lots of news outlets like to write feel-good local human-interest puff pieces in the format of "local [insert career/hobby] is the first [insert demographic] to win [some honor]!" I don't think they exhaustively research that kind of article; the point is to make newspaper-buyers feel like something nice is going on in their town, and as long as it does that, that's the important thing.

well... scrolling through the clubs Facebook wall... there are quite a few very young kids being recognized as first dan black belt. none of the post use the term Jr. Blackbelt.

 

[Steve]

her basics are seriously in need of help.

maybe. But I think she could take most other 6 year olds.