2nd blue tip on my black belt

[Rumy73]

Well gosh, seems to me that if the LOWER end of the price spectrum is excessive, it should be even easier to open a school and get rich by undercutting their pricing.

Or maybe the fees he's griping about all the time aren't at all unreasonable for a business (as opposed to a charity) in that area.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

Ok, so its legit for you to disparage my view as "gripping" yet you are an admin and frequently penalize folks with tos? And then if you are reported, the person gets slammed for reporting you. Something is really off.

 

[ballen0351]

Ok, so its legit for you to disparage my view as "gripping" yet you are an admin and frequently penalize folks with tos? And then if you are reported, the person gets slammed for reporting you. Something is really off.

So your saying your not going to answer his question?

 

[Rumy73]

So your saying your not going to answer his question?

Nice attempted pile on.

 

[ballen0351]

Nice attempted pile on.

Guess not

 

[MT Admin Team]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

MT Admin Team

 

[WaterGal]

Is there a fee, beyond the normal tuition, associated with the mini-Dan tests? This is aimed at the OP, but could also go for anyone that does/has this practice in their school. If so, how much is the fee and how many mini tests are there before the next Dan level.

$20 each, and there are 5 for 1st dan, 10 for 2nd & 3rd dans, each testing a weapon form (bo, chucks & sai). None after that.

 

[WaterGal]

I heard about many people, some I know personally, that paid quite a bit of money for a BB test. $600 isn't the highest, but is, imo, too much money for a piece of paper. Now in full disclosure, I've never paid for any test I've taken, nor do I in turn charge for any test I administer. And that is when I had a school. That's just me. If this is a KKW school we're talking about, they ask, IIRC, $85 for a first Dan certificate. So we're looking at $515 mark up.

Yeah, $600 does seem rather high to me for 1st dan.

I mean, at a lot of places, the test price includes a new uniform, a belt with the student's name embroidered on it, maybe a weapon or a framed certificate or some other swag, plus boards and maybe other stuff to break. So there can be other costs beyond just the money to KKW. And I think it's fair for the school to make some money to be open extra hours for the special event. But unless you're flying in a grandmaster to officiate your test or something, $600 seems like an awful lot.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yeah, $600 does seem rather high to me for 1st dan.

I mean, at a lot of places, the test price includes a new uniform, a belt with the student's name embroidered on it, maybe a weapon or a framed certificate or some other swag, plus boards and maybe other stuff to break. So there can be other costs beyond just the money to KKW. And I think it's fair for the school to make some money to be open extra hours for the special event. But unless you're flying in a grandmaster to officiate your test or something, $600 seems like an awful lot.

Our KKW 1st Dan is $400. KKW fees, boards, framed certificate, embroidered belt, bringing either our KJN or another GM (usually; there are only two people above our Master in the lineage, so if they're not available...), and a small party after. MDK 1st Dan is $300.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I have seen $60-$80.

And how many mini-tests are there from Dan grade to Dan grade?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

$20 each, and there are 5 for 1st dan, 10 for 2nd & 3rd dans, each testing a weapon form (bo, chucks & sai). None after that.

Alright, so if I'm understanding correctly, between 1st and 2nd Dan they're five mini-tests at $20 each for $100 total investment on top of monthly tuition. And between 2nd and 3rd/3rd to 4th they're ten mini-tests for $200 investment each plus monthly tuition.

How much are the Dan tests?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Our KKW 1st Dan is $400. KKW fees, boards, framed certificate, embroidered belt, bringing either our KJN or another GM (usually; there are only two people above our Master in the lineage, so if they're not available...), and a small party after. MDK 1st Dan is $300.

Ok, the KKW cert is $85. So that leaves $315 towards boards, frame, belt (which aren't expensive, perhaps in the neighborhood of $20 give or take), travel for the KJN and a party. And of course a little something for the school. All in all, that's not to bad considering, from your earlier post, there is no cost for mini-tests.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Yeah, $600 does seem rather high to me for 1st dan. But unless you're flying in a grandmaster to officiate your test or something, $600 seems like an awful lot.

When I went for my 1st Dan the head of our school Master Rhee flew in, like he always does, and it only cost me $150. I have heard of one school in America that charged $2000.

 

[seasoned]

As with anything, what the market can bear, the people will pay.

 

[WaterGal]

Alright, so if I'm understanding correctly, between 1st and 2nd Dan they're five mini-tests at $20 each for $100 total investment on top of monthly tuition. And between 2nd and 3rd/3rd to 4th they're ten mini-tests for $200 investment each plus monthly tuition.

How much are the Dan tests?

$300 for 1st Dan, which includes the KKW cert, a new uniform, embroidered belt, weapon, and about 20 boards. Oh, and us taking GM out to dinner - man puts away some serious soju, lol.

 

[reeskm]

What a great thread!

As for myself, 1st Dan, from memory, was around $650 Canadian. It included quality heavyweight uniform, TSD MDK trimmed, custom embroidered belt, two dan certificates (one personally from my instructor, the other from the American Tang Soo Do Association), registration with our org (at the time it was ATA) and it was for a 2.5 day test. Instructor training course on Friday evening was mandatory, and 2 day black belt test over the weekend. It covered all food during the test, but paying for the banquet on Sunday night and the GM's meal was extra. I think that was about $40, but I didn't care at all. I was massive starving!

All in all, I thought the fee was very reasonable.

One aspect that hasn't been mentioned, I think, was this:
Our instructor made it very clear that the cost of the test was based on the idea that if the cost of entry was too cheap, there was little incentive for the applicant to take the test seriously. By putting a monetary price on the test, in essense, constitutes a barrier to overcome mentally and physically. He used to semi-jokingly tell us that if we just so happened to want to back out of the test, that the fee was non-refundable. And that he would be enjoying his steak dinner on that particular dropout. He rarely ever did get that steak dinner for free though. We were all too determined not to let him have it

Some take this as a sign of a McDojo. Let me tell you, never did I ever consider my school a McDojo. There was too much other professionalism displayed all around for it to ever be cheapened to that level. You got out at least 2x as much as you put in financially and it was worth every penny.

My experience regarding mini tests is very similar to Michael89's. We would receive 4 blue stripes on our red (senior gup) belt before black belt testing. There were 2 pre-tests before 1st dan, and every year dan's were expected to "re-certify" or go to those pre tests with the senior gup's. Cost has always been about $40 and it is run on a non-class day, like a Saturday morning. It was always reasonable along the lines that tests and seminars should have a small fee to cover the costs of running the dojang.

DC is an expensive area. Expensive to live, expensive to run a business. The schools there have to pay the bills, and I suspect the instructors are fond of things like eating, sleeping indoors, and maybe even driving a car.

In the oil rich and spoiled city of Calgary where I'm from, leasing a commercial space for a reasonable Dojang runs around $4-10k/month, including fees and utilities, taxes and the like. With over 150 martial arts schools in this city of 1.3 million, running a competitive school is really really really hard, compared to the Michigan where my teacher was from before, and lease was $500 USD/month all in.
Dirty Dog hits this issue dead on the money: you teacher deserves a decent life and if you appreciate the training and mentorship, pitch in to support them. My teacher sacrificed so much to be there for us, on the other end of a phone, in person, after hours, at seminars and tournaments all around the world, and for training in martial arts for over 40 years. And, god bless him he's really not that wealthy. He still can't even afford his own house, doesn't drive new cars, and works full time during the day to support his family.

 

[skribs]

Yeah, I got the heads up for the $600 test at my school, but AFAIK it includes the KKW registration, a new uniform, trophy, and embroidered belt. I haven't tested yet (probably another 1.5 years) and I haven't watched any of the tests, but I've heard they have to get a GM from outside. I think it's a bit high, and would obviously prefer cheaper, but it's definitely not a deal breaker for me.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Yeah, I got the heads up for the $600 test at my school...

Did you get the heads up from the school, or from other students/parents? I've seen students getting the heads up from other students/parents....never from the school at the time of enrollment

 

[andyjeffries]

Ok, the KKW cert is $85.

KKW 1st Dan is US$70. 2nd Dan is US$90, 3rd is US$120, 4th is US$150.

Just for reference...

 

[Earl Weiss]

Yeah, I got the heads up for the $600 test ....................................................., trophy, .

Can you elaborate on the "Trophy" aspect?

 

[Earl Weiss]

What a great thread!

As for myself, 1st Dan, from memory, was around $650 Canadian. .................................


One aspect that hasn't been mentioned, I think, was this:
Our instructor made it very clear that the cost of the test was based on the idea that if the cost of entry was too cheap, there was little incentive for the applicant to take the test seriously. By putting a monetary price on the test, in essense, constitutes a barrier to overcome mentally and physically. .......................................................



................................................... It was always reasonable along the lines that tests and seminars should have a small fee to cover the costs of running the dojang.


......................................................
Dirty Dog hits this issue dead on the money: you teacher deserves a decent life and if you appreciate the training and mentorship, pitch in to support them. My teacher sacrificed so much to be there for us, on the other end of a phone, in person, after hours, at seminars and tournaments all around the world, and for training in martial arts for over 40 years. And, god bless him he's really not that wealthy. He still can't even afford his own house, doesn't drive new cars, and works full time during the day to support his family.

Agee wholeheartedly that Instructors need to cover costs which can vary greatly and that they should be well compensated.

I take issue with:

"Our instructor made it very clear that the cost of the test was based on the idea that if the cost of entry was too cheap, there was little incentive for the applicant to take the test seriously. By putting a monetary price on the test, in essense, constitutes a barrier to overcome mentally and physically"