2nd blue tip on my black belt

[Kong Soo Do]

Is there a fee, beyond the normal tuition, associated with the mini-Dan tests? This is aimed at the OP, but could also go for anyone that does/has this practice in their school. If so, how much is the fee and how many mini tests are there before the next Dan level.

Anyone?

 

[Archtkd]

Anyone?

Our dojang does not do that, and in more than 25 years that I have practiced Kukkiwon style taekwondo I've never had/or been asked to do such in between dan tests. If testing fees comprises a significant portion of a dojang's revenue, in between dan testing, is one of the ways to increase that revenue, especially if the dojang has a high number of blacbelts. I have seen q number of Kukkiwon/WTF styles doing the in between dan tests, but ironically most of those dojangs do not actually recomment thier members for Kukkuwin dan/poom certification.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Is there a fee, beyond the normal tuition, associated with the mini-Dan tests? This is aimed at the OP, but could also go for anyone that does/has this practice in their school. If so, how much is the fee and how many mini tests are there before the next Dan level.

There are a number of KKW TKD schools in this area that have the mini-tests. A friend studies at one of them, and they do not pay a fee for the mini-tests. I do not know about the others.
The closest we come to these mini-tests is when a student (of any rank) asks if they're ready to promote. If there is doubt, we will pull the senior students present up front to judge and do a brief mini-test, then give opinions and offer suggestions on what needs to be improved prior to promoting.

 

[oftheherd1]

Ksd,

Typically, a student pays monthly dues, and in addition, mini test fees and then bb dan test. Usually there are 1 to 8 (sometimes 10) of these mini tests. Some schools try to claim that the mini tests also include "weapons training." While it is well and good that a student learns staff, nunchucks, et cetera, why is it costing more? The simple answer is that people are so into getting a bb and have come so far, they usually suck it up and pay. The mini tests have nothing to do with anything set forth by the kkw. Their only guideline is for time in class at each dan level followed by a successfully completed test, which is reasonable. Somewhere along the way, a dojo owner decided each bb level could be subdivided and a mini tests issued. Just like the way regular belts have been subdivided with strips. While there is a reasonable argument to made about giving students short term goals, this position is both subverted and perverted by the actual cost of it all. I continue to ask and none of these folks defend schools with such models have ever had a cogent retort to my basic question: what do monthly dues cover? If one is attending class and learning reasonably, why are there these paid mini-check ins? It is about money. It is shameful, really, because when a student has reached the level bb, a huge investment on many levels has been made.

It must have been a long time ago. When I studied under Jhoon Goo Rhee in the mid-60s, we paid a monthly fee and for each test. I don't recall the amounts, but I think all of us felt it was reasonable. That was for colored belts. I never achieved black belt so I don't know if their fee structure was different.

When I studied Hapkido in Korea, it was the same. I seem to remember monthly fees were $30 or maybe $35. I don't recall what the colored belt tests were. The black belt practice test was $50 and the actual black belt test at the Korean Hapkido Association was $100. There you were tested by a panel of Grand Masters from other schools.

Anyone?

See above.

 

[Rumy73]

It must have been a long time ago. When I studied under Jhoon Goo Rhee in the mid-60s, we paid a monthly fee and for each test. I don't recall the amounts, but I think all of us felt it was reasonable. That was for colored belts. I never achieved black belt so I don't know if their fee structure was different.

When I studied Hapkido in Korea, it was the same. I seem to remember monthly fees were $30 or maybe $35. I don't recall what the colored belt tests were. The black belt practice test was $50 and the actual black belt test at the Korean Hapkido Association was $100. There you were tested by a panel of Grand Masters from other schools.



See above.

In the DC region, monthly fees are about $100, $80 for mini dan tests and typically $600 for first dan and increasing in cost thereafter.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

There are a number of KKW TKD schools in this area that have the mini-tests. A friend studies at one of them, and they do not pay a fee for the mini-tests.

I see this as not only quite reasonable, but desirable. Although a Dan level student may not need little slices of encouragement, short term goals are always a good thing to have. Not having to pay additional funds for this service is, imo, commendable on the part of those schools.

The closest we come to these mini-tests is when a student (of any rank) asks if they're ready to promote. If there is doubt, we will pull the senior students present up front to judge and do a brief mini-test, then give opinions and offer suggestions on what needs to be improved prior to promoting.

That is excellent and really offers a sense of community within the school. Good practice!

 

[Dirty Dog]

In the DC region, monthly fees are about $100, $80 for mini dan tests and typically $600 for first dan and increasing in cost thereafter.

DC is an expensive area. Expensive to live, expensive to run a business. The schools there have to pay the bills, and I suspect the instructors are fond of things like eating, sleeping indoors, and maybe even driving a car. Nobody forces you to go to their school.

Since you seem to be convinced that these fees are excessive (I don't know if they are or are not, since I've never tried to run a commercial enterprise in that area), I have to wonder why you're not telling us about the school you've opened, and how you're getting rich by charging lower fees than all the competitors and stealing all their students.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

In the DC region, monthly fees are about $100, $80 for mini dan tests and typically $600 for first dan and increasing in cost thereafter.

Are these KKW schools? I can see the monthly fee of $100. That's pretty comparable to what I've seen in my area. I don't have an issue with that in a commercial school. Colored belt tests, last I checked around (many years ago) was pretty standard at $50.

I heard about many people, some I know personally, that paid quite a bit of money for a BB test. $600 isn't the highest, but is, imo, too much money for a piece of paper. Now in full disclosure, I've never paid for any test I've taken, nor do I in turn charge for any test I administer. And that is when I had a school. That's just me. If this is a KKW school we're talking about, they ask, IIRC, $85 for a first Dan certificate. So we're looking at $515 mark up. Considering that the student has paid a monthly tuition for perhaps 2-3 years in addition to colored belt tests (perhaps 5-10) I would say they've invested a substantial amount of money already to the school. To charge and additional $500+ (or more) is something I don't find reasonable. I could perhaps see matching the KKW price (or whatever org we're talking about).

Is it bilking? Well, hopefully the student was smart enough to find out up front how much things would cost. If not, then it is on them. If they're willing to pay that kind of money then so be it. Some people attach quality to a dollar amount, some do not. Some perhaps don't realize that careful shopping may provide the same level of service for less investment. And to be fair, location is part of the equation. Some places may not provide a choice. In my area there are a plethora of TKD schools (just checked the local YP which revealed over five pages of schools not counting YMCA's and community centers). Some folks may not have such options.

 

[Rumy73]

DC is an expensive area. Expensive to live, expensive to run a business. The schools there have to pay the bills, and I suspect the instructors are fond of things like eating, sleeping indoors, and maybe even driving a car. Nobody forces you to go to their school.

Since you seem to be convinced that these fees are excessive (I don't know if they are or are not, since I've never tried to run a commercial enterprise in that area), I have to wonder why you're not telling us about the school you've opened, and how you're getting rich by charging lower fees than all the competitors and stealing all their students.

Clearly you are trying to start something and then hide behind your admin status, would you cut the nonsense already.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Clearly you are trying to start something and then hide behind your admin status, would you cut the nonsense already.

I can't help but notice you didn't actually respond to any of the points I made.

So, since you're convinced the fees in your area are excessive, why haven't you opened a school, set "reasonable" fees, stolen all the students from the other schools and gotten rich?

 

[Rumy73]

Are these KKW schools? I can see the monthly fee of $100. That's pretty comparable to what I've seen in my area. I don't have an issue with that in a commercial school. Colored belt tests, last I checked around (many years ago) was pretty standard at $50.

I heard about many people, some I know personally, that paid quite a bit of money for a BB test. $600 isn't the highest, but is, imo, too much money for a piece of paper. Now in full disclosure, I've never paid for any test I've taken, nor do I in turn charge for any test I administer. And that is when I had a school. That's just me. If this is a KKW school we're talking about, they ask, IIRC, $85 for a first Dan certificate. So we're looking at $515 mark up. Considering that the student has paid a monthly tuition for perhaps 2-3 years in addition to colored belt tests (perhaps 5-10) I would say they've invested a substantial amount of money already to the school. To charge and additional $500+ (or more) is something I don't find reasonable. I could perhaps see matching the KKW price (or whatever org we're talking about).

Is it bilking? Well, hopefully the student was smart enough to find out up front how much things would cost. If not, then it is on them. If they're willing to pay that kind of money then so be it. Some people attach quality to a dollar amount, some do not. Some perhaps don't realize that careful shopping may provide the same level of service for less investment. And to be fair, location is part of the equation. Some places may not provide a choice. In my area there are a plethora of TKD schools (just checked the local YP which revealed over five pages of schools not counting YMCA's and community centers). Some folks may not have such options.

Yes, these are kkw schools I am talking about.

There are a few ways to see this problem. I agree ppl should shop around but a lot has to do with convenience. In an area with congestion and bad traffic, close to home is key for consistent participation. However, most schools use similar business models. So shopping around may not yield different results. For my son, I looked into community karate, it was pathetic.

 

[Rumy73]

I can't help but notice you didn't actually respond to any of the points I made.

So, since you're convinced the fees in your area are excessive, why haven't you opened a school, set "reasonable" fees, stolen all the students from the other schools and gotten rich?

Nice try.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Nice try.

Thank you. I am trying to get you to actually respond to a question, but I keep failing. All you do is dodge.

So I will try again...

Since you feel the fee structures at the schools in your area are excessive, why haven't you opened a school, undercut all those schools, and gotten rich?

That's certainly what I would do.

 

[ballen0351]

Thank you. I am trying to get you to actually respond to a question, but I keep failing. All you do is dodge.

So I will try again...

Since you feel the fee structures at the schools in your area are excessive, why haven't you opened a school, undercut all those schools, and gotten rich?

That's certainly what I would do.

Prob because I live in the same area as Rumy and the prices hes quoting are on the lower end for this area. Most BJJ schools here are 200+ a month, My Karate Dojo is $125 a month with my police discount. I dont train TKD but I know of 2 schools in the area that charge in excess if 150 a month. My cheapest class is Judo and its $35 a month but its also not really a commercial school.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Prob because I live in the same area as Rumy and the prices hes quoting are on the lower end for this area. Most BJJ schools here are 200+ a month, My Karate Dojo is $125 a month with my police discount. I dont train TKD but I know of 2 schools in the area that charge in excess if 150 a month. My cheapest class is Judo and its $35 a month but its also not really a commercial school.

Well gosh, seems to me that if the LOWER end of the price spectrum is excessive, it should be even easier to open a school and get rich by undercutting their pricing.

Or maybe the fees he's griping about all the time aren't at all unreasonable for a business (as opposed to a charity) in that area.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Maybe I've missed it, but what is the range of fee for the mini Dan tests?

 

[msmitht]

I took black belt test first time in 2 years and I passed last Friday (April 11,2014) only 5 more test till i become 2nd dan black belt. test is every two month.

Congrats. You do know how the kukkiwon tests run, don't you? 2 random forms and then your poomsae, one round of sparring and then breaking. That's it. Anything else is added on by your instructors to fill the time. Only takes a year in Korea to get to black and only a year to second. Same certificate that you are getting.
And the test for second only costs $90.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Congrats. You do know how the kukkiwon tests run, don't you? 2 random forms and then your poomsae, one round of sparring and then breaking. That's it. Anything else is added on by your instructors to fill the time. Only takes a year in Korea to get to black and only a year to second. Same certificate that you are getting.
And the test for second only costs $90.

What takes them so damn long?

 

[Rumy73]

Congrats. You do know how the kukkiwon tests run, don't you? 2 random forms and then your poomsae, one round of sparring and then breaking. That's it. Anything else is added on by your instructors to fill the time. Only takes a year in Korea to get to black and only a year to second. Same certificate that you are getting.
And the test for second only costs $90.

Very true. My neighbor was planning her daughter visiting Korea last summer. She had her daughter bb test in Seoul and saved a bundle.

 

[Rumy73]

Maybe I've missed it, but what is the range of fee for the mini Dan tests?

I have seen $60-$80.