now disabled
Master Black Belt
Yes san is three in japanese but how there are some ummm variations as to certain other numbers lol and I am not going into that lol
2 more months can't hurt...right?
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OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
Korean uses Chinese-sounding numbers for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. So it's Sam Dan.
JR 137
Grandmaster
I’ll get into it
From what I’ve heard, the number 4 in Japanese - shi - is a homonym for death. Rather than using shi, they use yon except when counting out things whenever possible. Hence, 4th dan isn’t “shidan” but rather “yondan.”
The number 7 - shichi - is a homonym for point of death. Like shi, nana is typically used instead of shichi. So rather than shichidan, nanadan is used.
I say homonym because I think the kanji between 4 and death, and 7 and point of death are different, but don’t hold me to that one.
Martial D
Senior Master
A little off topic but, to give some context to how seriously they take that stuff; where I live most of the apartments don't have a 4th, 14th, 24th etc floors or unit numbers with 4s in them either. This also applies to addresses.I’ll get into it
From what I’ve heard, the number 4 in Japanese - shi - is a homonym for death. Rather than using shi, they use yon except when counting out things whenever possible. Hence, 4th dan isn’t “shidan” but rather “yondan.”
The number 7 - shichi - is a homonym for point of death. Like shi, nana is typically used instead of shichi. So rather than shichidan, nanadan is used.
I say homonym because I think the kanji between 4 and death, and 7 and point of death are different, but don’t hold me to that one.
And I don't live in China.
_Simon_
Senior Master
I’ll get into it
From what I’ve heard, the number 4 in Japanese - shi - is a homonym for death. Rather than using shi, they use yon except when counting out things whenever possible. Hence, 4th dan isn’t “shidan” but rather “yondan.”
The number 7 - shichi - is a homonym for point of death. Like shi, nana is typically used instead of shichi. So rather than shichidan, nanadan is used.
I say homonym because I think the kanji between 4 and death, and 7 and point of death are different, but don’t hold me to that one.
Ahhhh is that why... have always wondered why yon and nana!
Haha shidan... the level of death. Shichidan, the level just at the point of death [emoji14] (means you've bounced back!)
now disabled
Master Black Belt
I’ll get into it
From what I’ve heard, the number 4 in Japanese - shi - is a homonym for death. Rather than using shi, they use yon except when counting out things whenever possible. Hence, 4th dan isn’t “shidan” but rather “yondan.”
The number 7 - shichi - is a homonym for point of death. Like shi, nana is typically used instead of shichi. So rather than shichidan, nanadan is used.
I say homonym because I think the kanji between 4 and death, and 7 and point of death are different, but don’t hold me to that one.
Yes it is all about death and they get umm rather suspicious at that @chrisparker will prob know more
This is where me learning the language conflicts with me learning the terminology
So much of the terminology isn't grammatically correct and it's difficult to see how the translation 'works'.
(Pronunciation, don't let's start on that one
)
If you’re going to invoke him, you need to include the space:
@Chris Parker
@Chris Parker
@Chris Parker
Three times, like Beetlejuice.
now disabled
Master Black Belt
Invoke lol
I thought none of us believed in the ummmmm special secret powers and words ...........lol
Just because we don't believe, doesn't mean it won't work.
now disabled
Master Black Belt
Just because we don't believe, doesn't mean it won't work.
When he turns up I will bow to thee my friend lol....and become a believer (kinda )
OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
The other two who were injured are testing for their 1st degree black belt today, in a few hours. It's interesting, because these are two completely different people.
One is a guy in his 30s or 40s, who is a little awkward, both socially and in his movements. He started at my dojang a little bit before I did, and he progressed at his own pace. It's taken him a long time to memorize the patterns, and a long time as well for him to get the mind-body connection down. He still struggles with a lot, but he's worked real hard and has come a long way since he started.
The other is a high school girl who accelerated through the belts very fast. She was the lowest belt I invited to my demonstration team when I started it (she was a green belt at the time and everyone else was red or black belts, with maybe a few blue belts). She's among the best sparrers in our school, if not the best she's in the top 5. She's won gold in sparring at every tournament she's been to, and after her matches I've had the referee and the judges tell me "I learned stuff watching her fight." She absolutely dominates and a score of 24-6 isn't uncommon when she wins a bout. Half the time when I show her a new technique she's doing it just as good as me after a couple of tries.
They'll be testing with black belts who are going for gup ranks (intermediate ranks between dan ranks), but it should be an interesting test tonight.
One is a guy in his 30s or 40s, who is a little awkward, both socially and in his movements. He started at my dojang a little bit before I did, and he progressed at his own pace. It's taken him a long time to memorize the patterns, and a long time as well for him to get the mind-body connection down. He still struggles with a lot, but he's worked real hard and has come a long way since he started.
The other is a high school girl who accelerated through the belts very fast. She was the lowest belt I invited to my demonstration team when I started it (she was a green belt at the time and everyone else was red or black belts, with maybe a few blue belts). She's among the best sparrers in our school, if not the best she's in the top 5. She's won gold in sparring at every tournament she's been to, and after her matches I've had the referee and the judges tell me "I learned stuff watching her fight." She absolutely dominates and a score of 24-6 isn't uncommon when she wins a bout. Half the time when I show her a new technique she's doing it just as good as me after a couple of tries.
They'll be testing with black belts who are going for gup ranks (intermediate ranks between dan ranks), but it should be an interesting test tonight.
OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
They passed as well.
The man has always had trouble with remembering the patterns and he didn't forget a single thing today during the 3 hour test.
The girl has always been good, but she was struggling to catch up on everything after coming back from her injury. She needed a lot of last-minute practice and made a lot of mistakes before the test. During the test she was perfect.
Well done to the whole lot of you.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Hopefully this won’t derail the thread too much
...What’s the “intermediate ranks between dan ranks” all about? Are these regular interval tests between dan tests? What’s the point? Are there fees for these?
Just trying to wrap my head around it. Hopefully this won’t turn into a circus.
OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
Hopefully this won’t derail the thread too much
What’s the “intermediate ranks between dan ranks” all about? Are these regular interval tests between dan tests? What’s the point? Are there fees for these?
Just trying to wrap my head around it. Hopefully this won’t turn into a circus.
So we have Dan ranks and Gup ranks. The next Dan is how many gups you have. I think of it like application versions. You have Black Belt 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2, then upgrade to 2nd degree (2.0). Then 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and now I'm 3.0.
It does a few things. It breaks up the curriculum into smaller, more manageable chunks. At the black belt level our school includes additional forms from what Kukkiwon requires, as well as some hapkido techniques and weapon forms. It also helps break up the time between degrees. So students who have to wait for the year or so until they're eligible to advance still feel like they're progressing.
There is a fee, but the fee is similar to that for a colored belt tests. Beginners have a $40 fee, intermediate a $50 fee, and advanced have a $60 fee, black belt gup tests are $70. Our tuition + test fee is competitively priced with other schools in the area. (You have to consider the whole package if you're going to look at costs).
The killer on the wallet isn't the gup tests, it's the Dan tests. Those are around $700 for 1st degree and more as you go up. But included in that is an embroidered belt, a new uniform (which are usually $150 by themselves), semi-private lessons with the others testing for black belt, and the Kukkiwon registration, which I understand from other threads here can be quite expensive on its own.
---
Before we risk de-railing the thread (although it's run its course for it's main topic, so we might as well), as I said above, you have to factor in all the costs students pay. So if you have two schools that test every other month, and one school is $110/month, and the other is $90/month and $60 per belt test, which is better?
Well, the second school, if you test every testing period, you're paying an average of $120/month and advancing quick. But if you test every 4 months you're paying $105/month. Every 6 months you pay $100/month. So there is some variance in how much it will affect your monthly cost.
I haven't personally priced out the other schools in the area, but I've had several students tell me that when they looked at the total cost for tuition, tests, and any other fees, that our school was the best price.
From other sources, that costs like $75...
JR 137
Grandmaster
People just see a single price and don’t think about the overall cost of attendance. The first time I heard that my 1st dan is going to cost me $400 and some change, I got sticker shock. Dan testing is done by our founder at his dojo in NYC, a few doors down from the Flatiron Building. Cost of doing business there isn’t exactly cheap. I pay $55/month I’m tuition currently, which is by far the lowest in my area (not the NYC dojo$ My 1st dan in my previous organization cost $125 in 1999, but tuition was almost double what I’m paying now, so I’m still ahead financially (not that that’s what’s driving anything).
I haven’t heard of the testing between dan ranks before.
OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
I'm not sure how many other schools do it. We get certificates from KKW for those, so at the very least the organization accommodates the school in this regard. But I think it's like the Keub ranks in that they're not enforced from school-to-school.
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