Youtube reliability

[fangjian]

I was gonna bring this up in the 'Capoeira works' thread, but it has been locked.

Most of the sentiment here on MT, I think, is that youtube is not a reliable source for assessing martial arts styles. Whenever it's brought up, most people say things like, " All the stuff you see on youtube is complete crap. That's not the real stuff, etc. "

I am somewhat knowledgable on a few styles like, let's say, Balintawak, Modern Wushu, Traditional Wushu, Sanda/Muay Thai, BJJ and maybe a couple other styles. I could easily find videos for each of those styles that are demo/performed by whom I consider experts and they a decent representation of the style/system.

So I am thinking, just of the ones that I am knowledgable in, I can find superb videos for each of them. Why is it that so many people claim that youtube doesn't have any good videos that represent their style or whatever? It would be reasonable to assume that the more obscure the style, the less amount of videos, good or bad , you will find. However Balintawak is obscure, and I can find many high level videos of it.

I am not saying that a style can be COMPLETELY judged by youtube videos, but I would imagine, just from my own statement above, that there should be some out there, for most styles.

 

[MJS]

I was gonna bring this up in the 'Capoeira works' thread, but it has been locked.

Most of the sentiment here on MT, I think, is that youtube is not a reliable source for assessing martial arts styles. Whenever it's brought up, most people say things like, " All the stuff you see on youtube is complete crap. That's not the real stuff, etc. "

I am somewhat knowledgable on a few styles like, let's say, Balintawak, Modern Wushu, Traditional Wushu, Sanda/Muay Thai, BJJ and maybe a couple other styles. I could easily find videos for each of those styles that are demo/performed by whom I consider experts and they a decent representation of the style/system.

So I am thinking, just of the ones that I am knowledgable in, I can find superb videos for each of them. Why is it that so many people claim that youtube doesn't have any good videos that represent their style or whatever? It would be reasonable to assume that the more obscure the style, the less amount of videos, good or bad , you will find. However Balintawak is obscure, and I can find many high level videos of it.

I am not saying that a style can be COMPLETELY judged by youtube videos, but I would imagine, just from my own statement above, that there should be some out there, for most styles.

For myself, I like to view an art on youtube, only relying on YT about 50%, meaning, while there is some damn good stuff on there, there is also alot of **** out there too. But, OTOH, one would think....if you're going to put something on YT, you'd think that its going to be the best quality stuff, to represent that art, but sadly, in many cases, its not. For example....I could search Bujinkan clips, and for every 1 that really was high quality, at least IMO, I'd probably find 1 that totally sucked. Yet the person probably feels its a good vid.

This is why, in addition to the YT clips, I think that seeing something live and in person is also important. I mean, if you dont, its no different than you seeing one of your favorite food dishes on tv, and just because you see it, somehow its automatically great, when in reality, you could show up at the restaurant, order it, and you could take one bite and wanna toss the rest in the trash. LOL.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

As a tkdist I find youtube very unreliable. All you see on youtube is olmpic sparring and flashy kicks. I am a tkd black belt and I wouldnt even know the ruleset for olympic sparring and flashy kicks arent even taught where I train or at many tkd clubs for that matter. Its no different from anything on youtube, it generally shows the commercialisation of a subject. If, for instance, an American typed in "rugby league" to try and find out about the sport they would see highlights packages showcasing huge hits, 50 metre runaway tries, guys flying above the pack to catch a kick in the corner, 40/20 kicks etc , but if you actually watched a game you would be surprised how rarely those things actually occur. Same with MA's, if someone showed footage of "real" tkd it would be so boring you'd fall asleep watching it, thus most of the vids you see show 540 kicks, tornado kicks and heaps of head kicks which really isnt a true representation of what goes on most of the time.

 

[Big Don]

You Tube is what it is. It is as reliable a source as wikipedia, which is to say it isn't reliable at all. However, both You Tube and Wikipedia have their uses. Last week I got a new toy, a custom made bull whip. I had no idea how to crack it. I went to You Tube, I watched a few dozen videos, I tried emulating the ones that looked reputable and can now crack my whip two different ways with either hand.

 

[Big Don]

To clarify, simple things would be OK to learn by video. Anything complex, you should have a competent teacher.

 

[fangjian]

To clarify, simple things would be OK to learn by video. Anything complex, you should have a competent teacher.

No. I just meant, videos that are shown, by experts in that field and are of good quality, which are a fair representation of the said style. I can find quite a few in all of the styles I practice.

 

[Flying Crane]

For me the bigger problem lies in the EXPECTATION of finding things on Youtube. When something cannot be found, people decide that it does not exist.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

That being said, much of what I see on youtube is not of high quality, and I'm amazed at how many people believe it IS of high quality.

 

[fangjian]

Yes there are a lot of crap videos out there. But for example, I teach Balintawak, Wushu, Kickboxing, and Grappling. And here is one example of each of those that IMO are of high quality and done by, whom I'd consider, experts. If anyone asked me about showing them videos that are a fair representation of what I teach, these would be great.
Balintawak
[yt]17AGDIzfzjc[/yt]
Wushu
[yt]5d2FkXxSLmQ[/yt]
Kickboxing
[yt]4FCDKabF7YQ[/yt]
Grappling(BJJ)
[yt]jo5lmQsWT5M[/yt]

I often see people on these forums criticize Karate styles, wushu styles, Capoeira, TKD etc. Many people claim that all the videos online are all crap. I find it hard to believe there's NOTHING they can find that would be a fair demo for their style.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes, everything you find on YouTube... is proof of something

You want to know something, and I will use an example from the OP.

You will never EVER see my Sanda sifu on YouTube and that does not mean he is no good at Sanda (Sanshou). And I will take it a step further, you likely will find no one that really does his version of Sanshou on YouTube either. But if the lack of a video makes people believe it is fake or no good, I am guessing he is ok with that he knows and that is all that matters to him.

Same can likely be said for any number of martial arts styles and that includes Capoeria.
And as for the Martial arts A vs. Martial Arts B stuff. Does anyone really believe that someone trying to make themselves look good or discredit another martial art is going to put a video on it that shows them or their style getting beat or the art they are out to defame look good...? Come on you can’t be that naive

 

[yorkshirelad]

For me the bigger problem lies in the EXPECTATION of finding things on Youtube. When something cannot be found, people decide that it does not exist.
.

Very true, but when the thing your looking for can't be found on YT or numerous search engines, then there is a problem.

I've heard people swear blind that Sasquatch exists. They talk about it and give reasons to back up their claims. Some even insist that they have seen it themselves and are so frustrated, even infuriated when you don't buy into it that they have to keep banging the same drum over and over again.

Now, if I tell them that it is not outlandish to assume that a creature only a few may have seen, may in fact exist, but to believe it, I'll want visual proof, and I get berated for it, then I'll have to conclude that the person in question is having a bad day, or, is somewhat imbalanced. If the same person was to say, "I don't have any visuals, and I can understand why you are skeptcal, but when I do find it, I'll share it with you", I wouldn't just be satisfied with the exchange, I'd be impressed!

 

[Flying Crane]

You want to know something, and I will use an example from the OP.

You will never EVER see my Sanda sifu on YouTube and that does not mean he is no good at Sanda (Sanshou). And I will take it a step further, you likely will find no one that really does his version of Sanshou on YouTube either. But if the lack of a video makes people believe it is fake or no good, I am guessing he is ok with that he knows and that is all that matters to him.

hey, you will never find a video on youtube (or anywhere else) of me taking a dump. But I guarantee you that I do so on a regular basis.

 

[Flying Crane]

Very true, but when the thing your looking for can't be found on YT or numerous search engines, then there is a problem.

I've heard people swear blind that Sasquatch exists. They talk about it and give reasons to back up their claims. Some even insist that they have seen it themselves and are so frustrated, even infuriated when you don't buy into it that they have to keep banging the same drum over and over again.

Now, if I tell them that it is not outlandish to assume that a creature only a few may have seen, may in fact exist, but to believe it, I'll want visual proof, and I get berated for it, then I'll have to conclude that the person in question is having a bad day, or, is somewhat imbalanced. If the same person was to say, "I don't have any visuals, and I can understand why you are skeptcal, but when I do find it, I'll share it with you", I wouldn't just be satisfied with the exchange, I'd be impressed!

I'll tell you what. Instead of re-creating the circus show that the Capoeira thread became, I'll just circumvent the whole problem and tell you this: you and I have nothing further to discuss about anything, ever.

 

[fangjian]

If someone is interested in seeing what Sanda looks like, yes XueSheng, you will not find videos of your shifu's exact flavor of Sanda, but I would imagine that you could provide a couple links of some reputable sources, no?

 

[Big Don]

hey, you will never find a video on youtube (or anywhere else) of me taking a dump. But I guarantee you that I do so on a regular basis.

Yeah, but, are you good at it?

 

[Flying Crane]

Yeah, but, are you good at it?

one of the best.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Very true, but when the thing your looking for can't be found on YT or numerous search engines, then there is a problem.

I've heard people swear blind that Sasquatch exists. They talk about it and give reasons to back up their claims. Some even insist that they have seen it themselves and are so frustrated, even infuriated when you don't buy into it that they have to keep banging the same drum over and over again.

Now, if I tell them that it is not outlandish to assume that a creature only a few may have seen, may in fact exist, but to believe it, I'll want visual proof, and I get berated for it, then I'll have to conclude that the person in question is having a bad day, or, is somewhat imbalanced. If the same person was to say, "I don't have any visuals, and I can understand why you are skeptcal, but when I do find it, I'll share it with you", I wouldn't just be satisfied with the exchange, I'd be impressed!

There are several factors that you are overlooking.

While it is safe to assume that over 99.9% of the people of the world have never seen a sasquatch, it is a 100% certainty that none of them have ever seen a tyrannosaurus rex. However, when scientists go looking for evidence of the tyrannosaur, they can find it; fossilized footprints and remains, etc.

When they go looking for the sasquatch, they find nothing, and what evidence that is presented always turns out to be either misrepresented or a hoax.

Point being that there is more to evidence than just video. If I were so inclined, I could go to Brazil and search out 'fighting capoeira,' spending a few months following up on leads, checking up on schools, and comparing what I know about other fight/SD oriented arts with what I see during my excursion.

Seeing as how I'm not in a position to do so, nor do I have the inclination, I am perfectly happy to defer to someone who practices the art.

But lack of video is not a lack of evidence; simply a lack of video.

Not to mention that there are some very good reasons to not post your stuff on youtube.

Daniel

 

[Nomad]

Yes there are a lot of crap videos out there. But for example, I teach Balintawak, Wushu, Kickboxing, and Grappling. And here is one example of each of those that IMO are of high quality and done by, whom I'd consider, experts. If anyone asked me about showing them videos that are a fair representation of what I teach, these would be great.

I often see people on these forums criticize Karate styles, wushu styles, Capoeira, TKD etc. Many people claim that all the videos online are all crap. I find it hard to believe there's NOTHING they can find that would be a fair demo for their style.

I think much of the difficulty of using Youtube as a source is separating the wheat from the chaff. In other words, knowing who the experts are who are giving good representations of the art in question. If you don't have this knowledge, simply searching for a particular style or form can get a whole lot of garbage along with the great.

If you don't already have educated eyes, it can be difficult to tell the good from the bad just by watching a video; there's plenty of stuff that looks quite impressive but that lacks many of the fundamentals of good martial arts. Plus, people only tend to video (or watch) the "flashy" stuff; most of the repetitive drills and basics that would be really useful are never recorded, or if they are, are almost never watched (because they're boring!).

 

[Xue Sheng]

Very true, but when the thing your looking for can't be found on YT or numerous search engines, then there is a problem.

I've heard people swear blind that Sasquatch exists. They talk about it and give reasons to back up their claims. Some even insist that they have seen it themselves and are so frustrated, even infuriated when you don't buy into it that they have to keep banging the same drum over and over again.

Now, if I tell them that it is not outlandish to assume that a creature only a few may have seen, may in fact exist, but to believe it, I'll want visual proof, and I get berated for it, then I'll have to conclude that the person in question is having a bad day, or, is somewhat imbalanced. If the same person was to say, "I don't have any visuals, and I can understand why you are skeptcal, but when I do find it, I'll share it with you", I wouldn't just be satisfied with the exchange, I'd be impressed!

So then you're saying you believe there is a Sasquatch because there are videos of him/her on YouTube, is that it.

 

[oaktree]

I think videos give a superficial source for input about anything.
I think seeing a Capoeira video for example would only provide me with a rudementary understanding of what Capoeira is.

If I want to know more about it and its applications I would be looking to find a teacher who can show me the applications from there, I feel I can make a better informed choice
if Capoeira is something that would work in my ideal self defense applications.

 

[fangjian]

Claims that there exist schools of Capoeira that teach self defense do not require the same amount of evidence that are required of claims that Sasquatch exist.