Your training regimen

brocklee said:
wooden dummy doesn't hit back either ;) pretty funny post though. Sorry if this has been answered already, I haven't read page 6 yet.
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What I meant was that wooden dummy is more about footwork and positioning. Hitting trees down seems like a mentalist approach to wing chun!
 
Kamon Guy said:
What I meant was that wooden dummy is more about footwork and positioning. Hitting trees down seems like a mentalist approach to wing chun!
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I'm sure he was kidding and if not, he deserves to knock em down. They've gotta be dead already so no biggie.
 
I thought training on trees was Muay Thai, but what do I know...
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Hello, Everyone. I'm not trying to hijack the tread, just answer the initial question. I have been trying to put together what I hope will be a pretty comprehensive Kung Fu/Exercise regimen. This will become my training regimen very soon unless people start poking major holes in it. Any and all suggestions or questions are welcome! And if by some crazy chance you wish to start doing it as well, or parts of it, please let me know how it goes!

Note: The Kung Fu (kicks and techniques) will be done against the air in front of a mirror to keep proper form until I get a wooden dummy some day. The exercise portion is geared to losing a bit of weight (something I need to do) and getting toned but not built (they are all body weight exercises). It also might be important to note I train at my wing chun school for an hour and a half on Tuesdays and Thursday and pretty rarely Saturdays.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Form[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sil Lim Tao[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] – Three Times (Including Chi Gung)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] (Will Add the Others as I Learn Them)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Warm Up [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jump Rope –[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] 5 Minutes[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Monday/Wednesday/Friday[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Kicking Set[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] - 50 Times Each Kick on Both Legs, Follow Each Kick with Roll Punch[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Front Kicks (Lead Stance)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] -Lead Leg with Bil Sao[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] -Rear Leg[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Round Kicks (Lead Stance)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] -Lead Leg with Bil Sao[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] -Rear Leg[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Side Kicks (Neutral Stance)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Donkey Kicks (Neutral Stance)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Stomp Kicks (Neutral Stance)[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Cardio[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] – Forty-five Minutes of Walking/Jogging/Running[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Technique Set[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] – 25 Times Each Technique on Both Arms using Both Lead and Rear Hand, Follow Each Technique with Roll Punch[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Bil Sao Punch, Pak Sao Punch, Arm Roll[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Bong Sao/Wu Sao, Lop Sao/Fut Sao[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Gan Sao Punch, Gan Sao Punch[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Jut Sao Punch, Bil Gee[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Lop Sao Punch (Might Add Some Lock or Take Down, Suggestion?)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Pak Sao Punch, Chun Sao, Lop Sao Punch[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Tan Sao Punch, Palm Strike, Lop Sao/Fut Sao[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]General Calisthenic Workout[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] – Ten Sets of Ten[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Triceps Extensions [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Toe Raises (Twenty Each Leg)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Squats[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] (Looking to Add a Good Exercise for the Glutes, Suggestion?)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Jumping Jacks[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Pushups (Drop Down)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Crunches[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Side Crunches (Each Side)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Reverse Crunches[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Stretch[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Chi Gung[/FONT]
 
Hi ArtesMagae. It looks to me as if you'll be doing SNT at the beginning of your workouts. It might be worth considering doing it at the end instead as it teaches you to relax your mind and muscles which I doubt you want to do before a workout! Doing it at the end should serve as a good cool down.

Also, I don't know how you perform SNT, but the first section should be done as slowly as possible, ideally for a minimum of 20 minutes but up to an hour if possible. Instead of aiming to do it 3 times I'd recommend just doing it once but for as long as you can....unless you can stand in your stance for 3 hours in which case you have my utmost respect :asian:!
 
Thanks for the input! I think you are right. I probably should move that towards the end. I am undecided on how many times though. At first I thought to do it three times, still doing the first section slowly but not as fully as you mentioned, so I would actually be training the form (that is the order of the techniques and the techniques themselves). But now as I think about it, I do already know the form and all of its techniques, maybe I should practice it in a different manner!

Thanks again!

By the way, I was taught that the ideal for the first section would be a one minute breath for an outward movement and a one minute breath for inward movement.
 
ArtesMagae said:
Thanks for the input! I think you are right. I probably should move that towards the end. I am undecided on how many times though. At first I thought to do it three times, still doing the first section slowly but not as fully as you mentioned, so I would actually be training the form (that is the order of the techniques and the techniques themselves). But now as I think about it, I do already know the form and all of its techniques, maybe I should practice it in a different manner!

Thanks again!

By the way, I was taught that the ideal for the first section would be a one minute breath for an outward movement and a one minute breath for inward movement.
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Putting a 1 minute timer on motions of the first form is very western world. I also feel that 20 minutes is a bit excessive. Sure you should move slow, and that's so that you build a nicely flowing, smooth structure...but you shouldn't put a timer on how long it should take. The point is...the elbow goes from here to here and the hand moves from here to there....and maintain a relaxed state. I attended a WT school for a little while and everyone seemed to be flexing when they did the first portion of SLT/SNT. Beads of sweat POURING off of everyones head. The complete opposite of the concept behind the simplest idea.

Also, and you may not practice this but...breathing in and out requires your chest to expand and contract. Just keeping your arm straight out and motionless, mixed with the breathing you described, will cause you to make slight adjustments in the rotator cuff to compensate for the expansion of the chest. Try breathing from the diaphragm. This causes you to hold air down below the ribs and almost seems like your not breathing at all....yet you're staying very oxygenated. It will remove the extra resistance that comes from having a full chest of air so you wont have to swing around it. Center line punches also seem to shoot out easier. So over all, its a more efficient thing to do.
 
Thanks for the post. I am learning that maybe I should explain myself better. :)

I would agree with you on the time limit thing. My Sifu would probably have explained it much more like you did. He only mentions the minute breaths as motivation I think. I think its his style to show us its possible to do better then we think we can to motivate us.

I personally breath as comfortably as I can when doing SLT or any Chi Gung but the length and comfort of a breath definately grows with practice.

And yes, diaphragmatic breathing has always been the goal for many reasons, but I haven't heard that one before. Thanks!
 
ArtesMagae said:
Thanks for the post. I am learning that maybe I should explain myself better. :)

I would agree with you on the time limit thing. My Sifu would probably have explained it much more like you did. He only mentions the minute breaths as motivation I think. I think its his style to show us its possible to do better then we think we can to motivate us.

I personally breath as comfortably as I can when doing SLT or any Chi Gung but the length and comfort of a breath definately grows with practice.

And yes, diaphragmatic breathing has always been the goal for many reasons, but I haven't heard that one before. Thanks!
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I may be confused about the breathing....Is it 30 seconds out and 30 seconds back? Does that mean it takes about 8 minutes to complete the 1st form?

I timed myself the other day and it took me just over 2 minutes to complete. Nothing was rushed and the moves were quite accurate. If 2 or 3 minutes isn't enough satisfaction, you can always start on the second form. I really enjoy both forms but my favorite part is connecting the two. It makes me feel like I'm graduating from concept to application. The whole thing only takes 6-8 minutes. I do 2nd form at a much slower pace, because the movements are much more exciting and maintaining a good axis is key.
 
I guess it's really a case of different horses for different courses when it comes to things like this - i.e. different lineages have different aims & ways of doing things so therefore train things differently. I agree with brocklee that putting a time limit (upper or lower) on doing your forms and the individual movements isn't a good thing as it can lead to rushing them and also doesn't allow your mind to relax. However I don't reckon that I'd be able to do SNT in just 2 minutes as it takes me at least 10 to get into a good state of relaxation & from there I've been taught to try and maintain that for as long as possible. Can't comment on Chum Kiu though as I've not started learning it - too much to get right in SNT first!

Just tried the centreline punch with and without breathing using the chest and it's sooo much easier when breathing using the diaphragm - upper arm doesn't catch on my pec muscle. I'd always thought of the diaphragm breathing from the perspective of maintaining bone structure but this is another good reason. Cheers
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brocklee said:
I attended a WT school for a little while and everyone seemed to be flexing when they did the first portion of SLT/SNT. Beads of sweat POURING off of everyones head. The complete opposite of the concept behind the simplest idea.
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I had a similar experience with my old Wing Chun class. We were taught to pull our Wu Sau back in the first section of SNT using the lat muscles. To this day I've still don't know the reason for doing it that way & was never given the answer in the old class which was one of the reasons I left!
 
DaveyBoy said:
I guess it's really a case of different horses for different courses when it comes to things like this - i.e. different lineages have different aims & ways of doing things so therefore train things differently. I agree with brocklee that putting a time limit (upper or lower) on doing your forms and the individual movements isn't a good thing as it can lead to rushing them and also doesn't allow your mind to relax. However I don't reckon that I'd be able to do SNT in just 2 minutes as it takes me at least 10 to get into a good state of relaxation & from there I've been taught to try and maintain that for as long as possible.
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I believe that we're talking about 2 different types of relaxation. The way that I have been taught, relaxation means to not use the muscle. Once you learn how to do the motions without using unnecessary muscles, you wont need to get into a state of relaxation. You simply do the moves and the muscles remain relaxed. The way that you state it takes at least 10 minutes to get into a good state of relaxation, makes it sound like your using SNT/SLT in a therapeutic manner. Kinda the wrong relaxation, from what I was told. You're not needing to fall asleep or relieve stress, you simply want to eliminate any added resistance that may deplete power from our already not so powerful punch ;) The type of relaxation you appear to be talking about is best found in the north style of tai chi.
 
brocklee said:
I believe that we're talking about 2 different types of relaxation. The way that I have been taught, relaxation means to not use the muscle. Once you learn how to do the motions without using unnecessary muscles, you wont need to get into a state of relaxation. You simply do the moves and the muscles remain relaxed. The way that you state it takes at least 10 minutes to get into a good state of relaxation, makes it sound like your using SNT/SLT in a therapeutic manner. Kinda the wrong relaxation, from what I was told. You're not needing to fall asleep or relieve stress, you simply want to eliminate any added resistance that may deplete power from our already not so powerful punch ;) The type of relaxation you appear to be talking about is best found in the north style of tai chi.
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I actually think we're both talking about the same type of relaxation in terms of using no unnecessary muscle to perform the movements. We're both trying to achieve the same goal but taking slightly different paths to do so. I find that even when doing the techniqies very slowly there is still all kinds of tension in various muscles that doesn't need to be there which I don't believe I would feel if I did the techniques any faster. Then again, the tension could be there as a result of doing the techniques slowly and so may not be there if I did them faster. Anyway, no right or wrong way - just different!

In addition to relaxing muscles we also try to relax our mind in SNT to achieve a very calm state with no thought. This is what I find takes at least 10 mintues as opposed to 10 minutes to relax the muscles! From re-reading my post I can see why it came across that way though. I guess what we're trying to acheive is a kind of meditative state but after a lot of training we should be able to just switch it on at will e.g. for chi sau or in a fight. I've still got a long way to go to achieving that but find that during SNT when my mind starts to relax I become acutely aware of things around me and feel ready to react in a split second to anything but still be very relaxed in body and mind. Afraid I can't really explain it better than that but perhaps when I get better at it and have more experience and understanding of what's happening I'll be able to. I'm not sure whether this mind relaxation stuff has been added in to my lineage by Sigung or whether other lineages do similar things. However if Sigung did add it, the parallel you drew with tai chi makes sense to me.
 
I don't want to cut the form discussion short, but anyone have any comments for the rest of the regimen? Either the Kung Fu or exercise portion?
 
ArtesMagae said:
I don't want to cut the form discussion short, but anyone have any comments for the rest of the regimen? Either the Kung Fu or exercise portion?
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There's already 96 posts....what is it that you're looking for? We're still discussing our training regimen and are going in detail as to what speed works best for what practitioner. There's more to training then just moving around and working out the body.
 
ArtesMagae said:
I don't want to cut the form discussion short, but anyone have any comments for the rest of the regimen? Either the Kung Fu or exercise portion?
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Well you did, but perhaps form discussions would be better in their own thread!

Anyway, the only other thing I'd say is to bear in mind that even if you follow the best regime in the world, the way in which you do it will have a massive bearing on how much benefit you'll derive from it. For example, if someone is doing weights to build loads of muscle, lifting heavier weights for fewer reps will yield massively different results to lifting light weights for many reps.....even though they are performing the same exercises in the same order. Thus one way of performing the routine will give them what they want while the other won't. If their training goals are different then the other way might be better.

BrockLee & I were discussing along exactly those lines except in terms of one of the main foundations of Wing Chun training. Like he said, there's more to training than just moving around.....like the WAY in which you move. Just some food for thought. Anyway, good luck with your training!!
 
DaveyBoy said:
Well you did, but perhaps form discussions would be better in their own thread!

Anyway, the only other thing I'd say is to bear in mind that even if you follow the best regime in the world, the way in which you do it will have a massive bearing on how much benefit you'll derive from it. For example, if someone is doing weights to build loads of muscle, lifting heavier weights for fewer reps will yield massively different results to lifting light weights for many reps.....even though they are performing the same exercises in the same order. Thus one way of performing the routine will give them what they want while the other won't. If their training goals are different then the other way might be better.

BrockLee & I were discussing along exactly those lines except in terms of one of the main foundations of Wing Chun training. Like he said, there's more to training than just moving around.....like the WAY in which you move. Just some food for thought. Anyway, good luck with your training!!
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Nice dude :D I like the example.
 
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