Your training regimen

[brocklee]

Formerly of Leung Ting WT Still paying for it with $$ and incorrect motions

 

[brocklee]

It was silly of me to say that I wouldn't post on a thread that you touched because it would ruin my experience here on the forums. Not only do I enjoy reading but I need to comment when I see a proper practitioner.

Daveyboy knows his stuff and it explains very well. Especially the heel description, very exact....nice post !!!

Isn't there a science forum you can hit up Tanizaki? Maybe mrwizard.com or something? They could use your vast database of info.

 

[DaveyBoy]

Interesting. The only lineage I've come across before that attempts to use absolutely no muscle is TST but it sounds as though you guys have a very similar approach. Hmm, I'll have to go read up.....

 

[brocklee]

Interesting. The only lineage I've come across before that attempts to use absolutely no muscle is TST but it sounds as though you guys have a very similar approach. Hmm, I'll have to go read up.....

are you TST?

here you go
http://www.hokamming.com/History.htm

http://www.hokamming.com/HoKamMing.htm

 

[DaveyBoy]

It was silly of me to say that I wouldn't post on a thread that you touched because it would ruin my experience here on the forums. Not only do I enjoy reading but I need to comment when I see a proper practitioner.

Daveyboy knows his stuff and it explains very well. Especially the heel description, very exact....nice post !!!

Thank you very much. It's all very well understanding what I'm trying to say but not always easy to explain - at least one person understands it which is good enough for me. Knowing the stuff is all very well, but I'd like to be able to actually do it during chi sau!

Thanks for the links, I'll have a look a bit later.

Nah, I'm not TST lineage but I do find their approach very interesting as the man himself appears to be able to do some really freaky stuff. I'm Ip Chun lineage but not one of his students unfortunately! I'll PM you if you wanna know my Sifu (don't want to post him on a forum).

Isn't there a science forum you can hit up Tanizaki? Maybe mrwizard.com or something? They could use your vast database of info.

:rofl:

 

[Tanizaki]

Isn't there a science forum you can hit up Tanizaki? Maybe mrwizard.com or something? They could use your vast database of info.

I think they would be much more interested to hear from you. They already know about human anatomy and the law of thermodynamics, so I'd tell them nothing new. However, they would be intrigued to learn that tendons can contract and human bodies can channel energy from the earth. It would truly push back the frontiers of science.

How many pounds of muscle do you plan to lose each week as part of your catabolism diet?

 

[brocklee]

I think they would be much more interested to hear from you. They already know about human anatomy and the law of thermodynamics, so I'd tell them nothing new. However, they would be intrigued to learn that tendons can contract and human bodies can channel energy from the earth. It would truly push back the frontiers of science.

How many pounds of muscle do you plan to lose each week as part of your catabolism diet?

I don't know why you keep stirring things up but just a heads up the kinetic energy is transferred from the ground to the point of contact through rotation and alignment of the joints and ligaments. Tendons give the spring like effect because of their elasticity and relationship between muscular structure and the bone. Not sure if you're aware of this but muscles do move around the bones. You talk a lot of talk and to me, as I'm sure the others, you seem narcissistic and enjoy reading your own posts.

If it makes you feel better, my kung-fu IS magic and sprinkled with fairy dust. Feel better now? It's not belittling to me. I like magic and how it works. I shoot magic missiles when my pok doesn't work.

I only shed about 2 lbs of muscle a week. Eventually I wont be able to walk but my wushu will be the bomb!!!

 

[brocklee]

Can I ask you something Tanizaki?

Just kinda putting things together...You graduated college in 96. You we're what 24? 11 years later and you're 35ish. A 35 year old college grad and on martial arts forums. Then you come in bashing on WC energy transfer concept. Would you happen to be a Sifu of Wing Tsun? This comes up because I don't know anyone that would stick to their guns on bashing one concept, without being of a different system. Anyone else that wasnt of a MA background would be more open minded to new things. But you seem strong in your ways. Do you practice or teach a MA?

 

[Sukerkin]

If it makes you feel better, my kung-fu IS magic and sprinkled with fairy dust. Feel better now? It's not belittling to me. I like magic and how it works. I shoot magic missiles when my pok doesn't work.

I only shed about 2 lbs of muscle a week. Eventually I wont be able to walk but my wushu will be the bomb!!!

ROFL - well done, sir :tup:. I have found from my own experience that taking yourself too seriously can lead to many conflicts that you could otherwise have avoided - {dubbed Chock-socky actor voice}Your powers of self-deprication are impressive{/voice}

Tanizaki, you seem an intelligent and articulate fellow and from what background you provide, no Spring Chicken either. So I am puzzled at the fractious tone in your posts - there are ways of getting your point across without being contentious after all.

Debate and discussion is actively encouraged here at MT, after all without it none of us will learn anything from each other. Divisive and negative argument, however, serves noone because as soon as you belittle anothers point of view the 'shields' come up and 'weapons are on-line'. From that point it's just 'combat' and because of the isolation the Errornet (copyright El Tejon, MAP) provides, noone ever backs down, whatever the weight of evidence provided. Sometimes you just have to let it go .

 

[Tanizaki]

I don't know why you keep stirring things up but just a heads up the kinetic energy is transferred from the ground to the point of contact through rotation and alignment of the joints and ligaments.

Really? I am surprised to learn that the earth radiates kinetic energy, the formula for which is KE=1/2mv^2. I don't suppose you'd mind plugging in the variables? I do wish you would stop making things up.

Tendons give the spring like effect because of their elasticity and relationship between muscular structure and the bone.

As I already said, this is false. Tendons do not contract or expand on their own. The muscle to which they are attached has to contract or expand.

Not sure if you're aware of this but muscles do move around the bones.

Do you wish to say that tendons move muscles, rather than the other way around?

If it makes you feel better, my kung-fu IS magic and sprinkled with fairy dust. Feel better now? It's not belittling to me. I like magic and how it works. I shoot magic missiles when my pok doesn't work.

I only shed about 2 lbs of muscle a week. Eventually I wont be able to walk but my wushu will be the bomb!!!

Shine on, you crazy diamond.

 

[Tanizaki]

Tanizaki, you seem an intelligent and articulate fellow and from what background you provide, no Spring Chicken either. So I am puzzled at the fractious tone in your posts - there are ways of getting your point across without being contentious after all.

I do not aspire to be contentious. I simply state things in a matter-of-fact manner.

Debate and discussion is actively encouraged here at MT, after all without it none of us will learn anything from each other. Divisive and negative argument, however, serves noone because as soon as you belittle anothers point of view the 'shields' come up and 'weapons are on-line'. From that point it's just 'combat' and because of the isolation the Errornet (copyright El Tejon, MAP) provides, noone ever backs down, whatever the weight of evidence provided. Sometimes you just have to let it go .

I do not think I have belittled anyone, but I appreciate your opinion and will take it onboard.

 

[brocklee]

Really? I am surprised to learn that the earth radiates kinetic energy, the formula for which is KE=1/2mv^2. I don't suppose you'd mind plugging in the variables? I do wish you would stop making things up.


As I already said, this is false. Tendons do not contract or expand on their own. The muscle to which they are attached has to contract or expand.


Do you wish to say that tendons move muscles, rather than the other way around?


Shine on, you crazy diamond.

as wise as you think you may be....kinetic energy is transfered by work being done. There are more ways of transferring energy and you are stuck on one....heat

For an object that is moving the kinetic energy equals one half times the mass of the object times the square of the speed of the object.

Nice and rainbowy for ya

I don't understand why you wish to go on.

You haven't stated anything related to MA. You should check out howstuffworks.com

 

[Sukerkin]

Okay chaps, you're obviously not going to agree with each other - I strongly suggest that the fight is done. If it goes on then all that will happen is that the thread will be locked.

In fact, it's wandered so far from the OP that I'm very tempted to suggest that that's done anyway.

However, perhaps we can bring it back on track? One last off-topic point to add to the mix ... tendons do stretch, flex and otherwise store energy. Trust me, I know from regular, painful, personal experience due to a fairly extensive injury. Less painfully, some iai techniques rely on the 'winding up' of the tendons to switch,say, the hips around quickly to avoid a cut. Think of them less as linkage rods and more as springs and some of the issues causing contention will not seem quite so irreconcilable.

 

[Tanizaki]

Can I ask you something Tanizaki?

Yes. You may even ask me something in addition to that.

Just kinda putting things together...You graduated college in 96. You we're what 24? 11 years later and you're 35ish. A 35 year old college grad and on martial arts forums.

24 is pretty late to be graduated from university. I received my bachelor's degree at 21, masters at 24, and law degree at 28. I am 31 now. Is your point that a 35-year-old would be too old and/or overeducated for this forum? Should I then assume that you are a teenage high school dropout?

Then you come in bashing on WC energy transfer concept.

Yes, as described by you, it is pseudoscience. The earth does not radiate energy into human beings that is then converted into useful kinetic energy. That is just basic mechanical physics.

Would you happen to be a Sifu of Wing Tsun? This comes up because I don't know anyone that would stick to their guns on bashing one concept, without being of a different system. Anyone else that wasnt of a MA background would be more open minded to new things. But you seem strong in your ways. Do you practice or teach a MA?

No, I am simply a person with a competent knowledge of physics. I do practice MA, but that has no bearing on the discussion of science. If scientists were to test claims about chi, for example, would you demand that they have some MA expertise? Science is science. I bash your "energy from the earth" hokum just as much as I bash aikido's "ki causes the unbendable arm" bunk. I do not discriminate.

Being open minded does not mean that one must abandon critical reasoning.

 

[Tanizaki]

as wise as you think you may be....kinetic energy is transfered by work being done. There are more ways of transferring energy and you are stuck on one....heat

Of course, heat is not kinetic energy.

For an object that is moving the

kinetic energy equals one half times the mass of the object times the square of the speed of the object.

Nice and rainbowy for ya

Maybe I should have used rainbows when I wrote KE=1/2mv^2 (what did you think that meant?), then, as you seem to have missed it. Now, can you plug in the variables to describe the energy emanating from the earth?

 

[brocklee]

So anyways, if you plan on using a WC lineage that strays from using muscles and is based of structure and energy transfer....I would say no to any intensive workout that focus' on increasing muscle mass because you then have to alter your skeletal system so that it may work the new muscle. A lot of great points in this thread and a lot of wasted energy. Not very WC.

 

[Tanizaki]

One last off-topic point to add to the mix ... tendons do stretch, flex and otherwise store energy. Trust me, I know from regular, painful, personal experience due to a fairly extensive injury. Less painfully, some iai techniques rely on the 'winding up' of the tendons to switch,say, the hips around quickly to avoid a cut. Think of them less as linkage rods and more as springs and some of the issues causing contention will not seem quite so irreconcilable.

That is a good analogy, and thinking of tendons as springs helps to illustrate my point. A spring can store and release energy, but it cannot do so itself. A spring with no force applied to it is useless. Force must be applied to both ends of the spring in order for potential energy to be stored. In the case of tendons, this energy comes from muscles.

 

[brocklee]

Here you will notice fairy dust at its best.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/303487/awesome_wing_chun_kung_fu_demonstration/

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm wondered if, perhaps, amidst the past couple of pages of posts, it's been missed that much of the argument is due to talking at crossed purposes? Or at least mis-matched definitions?

As a long time practioner of both armed and unarmed martial arts I have to say that I've been internally agreeing more with Brocklee's points (sorry, Tanizaki ) because I understood implicitly what he was trying to say i.e. that certain martial techniques rely on transmission of power from the bodies linkages rather than simple muscle movement from the striking limb.

In Japanese sword work, altho' the muscles of the arms are obviously used to hold and manipulate the katana, the power of the stroke, as with most martial techniques, comes from the hips and thus, by sheer connectivity, the feet on the ground.

Is this where the misunderstanding has come in? Is it simply a case of how Brocklee expressed the concept that has spawned all the combative words since?

 

[brocklee]

I'm wondered if, perhaps, amidst the past couple of pages of posts, it's been missed that much of the argument is due to talking at crossed purposes? Or at least mis-matched definitions?

As a long time practioner of both armed and unarmed martial arts I have to say that I've been internally agreeing more with Brocklee's points (sorry, Tanizaki ) because I understood implicitly what he was trying to say i.e. that certain martial techniques rely on transmission of power from the bodies linkages rather than simple muscle movement from the striking limb.

In Japanese sword work, altho' the muscles of the arms are obviously used to hold and manipulate the katana, the power of the stroke, as with most martial techniques, comes from the hips and thus, by sheer connectivity, the feet on the ground.

Is this where the misunderstanding has come in? Is it simply a case of how Brocklee expressed the concept that has spawned all the combative words since?

As much as locking a thread sucks, I think this horse is dead. Sukerkin take a look at his sig. It's apparent what his intentions are. If someone we're so smart and had so much schooling, you'd figure they would be able to figure out the simple meaning that most others seem to understand.