Your thoughts please

[TigerWoman]

I sat through alot of testings and tournament sparring for my kids, before I started in TKD. As a parent, I cringed to think my kid was getting hit that hard and it wasn't hard at all! As a student, when I got hit hard from my own kids, I realized that they were strong and could also take the hits from me-although I still couldn't go further then moderate on good chest gear as a mother!

Our tests for kids though are handled with light touch, maybe moderate if older teen though, against usually a black belt but not always. Depends on how much control the higher belt has. Testing/sparring shouldn't be about how they take the hits, but rather how much skill they demonstrate, endurance overall (not hits) and spirit. After all they are kids. I don't think the sweep was called for, although Im sure a learning experience. Was that on a mat too? It is true that the parent could pull them out and that would be the end of martial arts possibly in their lives. Heard alot of stories like that. Let them get tough in class and save the controlled moderate touch for brown-black belt. After they get 18, they can get alot tougher, but they will be the one choosing it, for sure. TW

 

[mj-hi-yah]

from what I was able to see the eyes where normal and functioning correctly. I only wish we could have asked a few questions to know how his orientation was.
The parent was in no mood to talk to the instructor and I don't think he gave the instructor time to offer. I do know that the other student involved in the incident did go outside and try to talk to the parent and child but I don't know what was said or if he was even able to talk to them


I agree with Tess also as parents we see things as parents and want to protect our children especially after they have got hurt

I do think if there is any question it is the responsible thing for the person in charge to follow up on it. He/she should have followed the parent out and asked those questions you are referring to, unfortunately schools don't always set policies on such things and with the head instructor not there, perhaps the person in charge just didn't know what to do. It would be a good idea for MA owners to have a conversation with all instructors who will be in charge in their absence on how to handle such a thing. This whole topic makes me think ~ what would I have done? It's hard to say from here. At the very least I hope someone from the school called to see how he was doing.

 

[lulflo]

I am thinking that there may have been a barrier for the father also, maybe he only knew your friend who was unable to attend and didn't feel comfortable talking to the other instructors at the school. Perhaps he was holding back as he was watching because he didn't work up the gumption to say anything until, as was mentioned before, the fresh high ranking student put the tired young man on his tail with a sweep that was, in my view, a little excessive for the last sparring match of the night for a two day test. Although I would not criticize anyone for using their techniques in a sparring match in a testing situation, I, as a father, would have probably said something in a fury after witnessing such a situation where my kid was submitted to a severe ending where many people rushed to him/her after getting knocked down from sparring with a senior student.


The testing sounded great based on your post and I am sure that the young man learned alot about himself and his limits and surely was pumped about making through it all so I am sure he is all right, but I would definitely have a discussion about the night with everyone in class and find out what they all thought about it and let them know to inform anyone who is viewing a testing that safety of the students is a major concern for everyone in the dojang, and to watch at their own risk. I am sure that the father was just upset to see his son getting hurt and will be okay with further training, but I would be curious to hear further information.

Farang - Larry

 

[Seabrook]

Accidents can happen during sparring and the sweep was not intended to necessarily hurt the candidate.

At the same time, the dad may have tried to be respectful by not saying anything during the test to let the instructors decide when enough is enough. For him to get that angry, there must have been a reason. If it was just out of anxiety and anger about the test, he shouldn't have done that. But then again, I am not sure how I would react if I saw my son or daughter hit the back of their head on the ground, and possibly suffer a concusssion.

The honarable thing to do is for the instructor to call the father at home and talk to him about the test.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[oldnewbie]

As a Dad of a student, and a student myself, I have seen similar reactions to kids being "hurt". Several of our parents would "bite their tongue" during sparring, only to talk with me the next day of class about how they felt. Some would speak up if they thought things went too far.

I think this is a case of the Dad putting up with alot of what he thought was "unfair" treatment, only to have the straw break when his kid went down "hard". He reacted emotionally. Your concern for the child was honorable, but maybe the Dad went into rescue mode, and believed He was the only one to help his child. (i.e. get outta my way, my child is hurt....)

FWIW

 

[tshadowchaser]

An update.



The young student is fine. A little sore in the muscles and tired from the mental and physical workout but other than that he is ok.

The parent and child where spoken to outside before they took off and it had been suggested that if there was any concern that the child be examined at a hospital or by a physician at the schools expense. The father said if he saw any signs of a concussion or anything unusual he would do so but it turns out he didn’t need to.

The schools instructor went to the students house today and sat down with both the chills and the parent for over two hours to discuss what went on. The parent admitted that he over reacted and said he had agreed to let the student spar that last session. He asked questions about a few things he saw during the test and was more than satisfied that the night was no different than any other testing night and that it had been conducted in a professional manner. In fact the father had many good things to say about the night.

It seems that the student in his previous school had had rather child like testing and upon joining the present school in the adult class had noticed the difference in training already.

The student will not only return to class but will be there for their next training session to practice with the competition team in both forms and sparring.

 

[lulflo]

Great to hear about another true student of the arts and instructors that are honorable.

Thanks for the update.

Farang - Larry

 

[shesulsa]

Greetings, Sheldon. I haven't posted yet because everybody else put it so well, that parents will be parents ... that's their job. They will rear up against anyone or anything they perceive threat from.

You absolutely did the right thing checking the boy and your team followed up. I'm very glad the father calmed down and this boy is getting back on the horse. WAY COOL!

:asian:

 

[MJS]

Yes, I too, am glad that things turned out well. Its good to see that everyone involved was able to discuss things and that there were no hard feelings towards anyone.

Mike

 

[Flatlander]

Sheldon, :asian:


I'm really glad to hear this is all going to work out for the best. I have left this thread alone because I am not an instructor, nor do I run a school. I figured it was those viewpoints that you were really after.

This was an excellent thread. It just goes to show that if you run your school in an honorable an reasonable way, things will usually work out for the best.

Take care, my friend.

- Dan Bowman

 

[altondragon]

Well hello ..this is my first post. I was one of the instructors at this test...yes i agree this is an interesting thread! So everyone knows... the student is fine.. a meeting with the parents occured the next day and all is well..in fact the parent expressed he was embarrased upon entering the workout area. Yes it was parental instinct..and yes the good ole days are gone of not having parents observe testing. Master Bedell it was a pleasure as always to have had you and your students visit..as you know traditional testing often requires a student to reach their physical/emotional breaking point..how else will they learn how they will react to a situation in real life. I whole heartedly feel that playing pattie cake with students is an injustice...I am very proud of this particular student..he learned a lesson in humility as he experienced accomplishment. I hope Im not sounding brutal in saying that...With full respect to all. Meg

 

[tshadowchaser]

First may i welcome you to Martialtalk.

I had no idea I would be starting this thread when I gave you the url for this site.



Now that we all know the young man is ok lets think about a few other things. We have had a few threads on what do you do if such and such happens and on are you medically trained so lets go a little different way.

In any high school my kids where in or I was associated with over the years all band, athletic teams, etc had a signed form from the parents stating that in case of emergency (with no parent being present) the school was authorized to due or not do certain things for the child’s well being. Do any of you have such a permission slip on file for your students or take such a thing to tournament? How do you handle an unexpected accident/injury at your school or when the student is in your care?

 

[47MartialMan]

As a 30+ year MA, an instructor, and a parent, allow me to say three things:

A father may have a higher expectation per not wanting a child to seem non-skilled

A father may not want to see the child hurt either physically or emotionally.

A father has a sense of pride with his child and cannot adjust or sit aside this inner feeling.

 

[altondragon]

Yes.... we do have a medical release form that is signed upon enrollment that also states the parent must inform us of any medical changes....of course they forget so we do renew those records annually (coincides when our annual insurance is due...) You raised a great question tho, MAster Bedell, about bringing those forms to tournaments...thank you...its easy enough to through that binder in with me when we travel. As always we are in a constant state of learning if not physically..mentally...and as owners of dojos,administratively! I hope everyone is up their cpr and first aid as you never know when you may need to use it. An emergency plan in place and regular black belt meetings identifying crisis issues is something i feel is important. I enjoyed reading all the repsonses regading this thread...and mostly for the understanding of the Martial Way. With full repsect to all my brothers and sisters in the arts...hitting the hay..goodnite.

 

[47MartialMan]

Yes, all of our instructor candiadtaes have to go to first aid and CPR certification as well as some child management, criminal defense, and law enforcement. A black belt candidate is required to summit a thesis before a actual physical test.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I think many of the schools today require their Black Belt to be up to date on their CPR and First Aide, we have had a few threads on this befor.

Now child management that is a new one to me but could be benificial to schools with a high childrens enrollment.
criminal defense, and law enforcement are also novel ideas but I'm not sure if they would be suited for most schools, those that teach a high percentage of law officers should most likely have them.
Law on the other hand as applied to what is and is not legal in your state would be a good class at least once a year (we had that thread befor also)

The more I think about the consent form the more I really like the idea.

 

[47MartialMan]

However, a consent or form is not an immunity.

 

[Knifehand]

However, a consent or form is not an immunity.

Acutally, in the eyes of the law it is, if it has been worded accordingly. In Civil Air Patrol (a volunteer group i am apart of), there is a form that everyone has to sign to go to any activity. It basicly says, if you die from anything that happens on this activity, Negligent or not, we are not responsible and you cannot sue us because any CAP personnell involved is an employee of the federal government and you cannot sue the federal government for punitive damages.

Consent forms can be treated the same way (except for the federal government thing) If they are worded properly (thats the key)

 

[47MartialMan]

Per government, I dont know. Per in civilian, I have seen that it did not help "entirely". It may be per particular circumstance.