You might disagree but I think this is great news

[dancingalone]

Your point makes no sense. Most Olympic sports are only seen during the Olympics. Notice I said most, there are some that are mainstream sports like Soccer, baseball, Boxing and a few others but if you look at a list of sports that make up the Olympics, most are never watched at all on TV and have very few that follow it at all out side of the people that do the sport.

I know I went off topic at the end so get back on topic; just about every Olympic sport needs people to have participated in it to appreciate it and be a fan of it.

Oh yeah and even the so called mainstream sports are the same. Everyone has played soccer, just like most Americans have played football or baseball. That is why they are cultural sports.

Yes, that's why I mentioned curling and the rhythmic gymnastics. Neither are relevant as sports financially or as a spectator sport. Sport TKD is likewise irrelevant, Olympic flavor or not.

Swimming, tennis, boxing... All three are examples of Olmpic sports that fans follow without necessarily being a participant themselves. Surely, you don't plan to argue that these are 'cultural' sports as well? It's not like I had to rack my brain to come up with those examples either.

The problem is not Sport TKD but rather the jealous practitioners of the other arts that want to be in the Olympics. Just listen to the arguments made by others. "It makes my art look bad" How? Most people don't know what sport TKD is.

TKD does not get a bad name from the sport. The people at the top that you see in the Olympics could most likely kick the snot out of most people if they had to. TKD gets a bad name from other MA practitioners that don't even compete in the sport, but have so much to say.

I agree somewhat. McDojangs do more to dishonor the image of TKD than Olympic sparring does. However, sport TKD does little to rehabilitate any poor opinion a lay person may have of TKD itself. Unfortunately, IMO sport TKD reinforces any negative prejudice lay people may have have.

We have had many cross over Martial Artist come to our dojang and each one (not some, not many, but all) have sucked at doing the sport. Even ITF practitioners that have joined our school took quite some time to understand the differences and get decent.

I fully realize sport TKD is an athletic endeavor, requiring plenty of committment and hard work to excel in. However, it is beyond the pale resembling any practical martial application, and that makes it hard for many in martial arts, TKD or not, to take seriously.

I made this challenge once before but I challenge anyone not doing the sport of TKD to do so. There are many open TKD tournaments where anyone can participate under the WTF rules.

What of it? You get good at what you practice and train for. A successful sport TKDist would have an equally difficult time in one of my training sessions where we train with makiwara and practice classical locks and pins.

No one disputes that sport TKD is demanding. It's whether it is relevant that I question.

 

[ATC]

I've got friends who are TKD instructors and they are embarrassed by the Olympic stuff.

Why? I don't think gymnasts are embarrassed by rhythmic gymnast or what they do. I don't think Michael Phelps (or any other mainstream swimmer) is embarrassed by synchronized swimming. They all respect each for what it is and what it takes to do it.

But in the MA world for some reason (I think jealousy and not jealousy of the art but of the fact their art’s sport is not represented.) we can't respect Olympic TKD for what it is and what it takes to do it. Everyone thinks they are better and can do better. Then do it. If what you do translates so well and it is so easy to do, then do it. And if you are to old to do it then produce someone that can do it.

Oh and if you use age as an excuse then you have just given the sport some validation. Cause if you think it is so easy to do then your age should not matter and can't be use as an argument.

 

[ATC]

Swimming, tennis, boxing... All three are examples of Olmpic sports that fans follow without necessarily being a participant themselves. Surely, you don't plan to argue that these are 'cultural' sports as well? It's not like I had to rack my brain to come up with those examples either.

Oh yes they are. Every sport you named is done by everyone in every country. Everyone swims. Everyone boxes or fights. And every country plays tennis and many have tried it. In America Tennis is a sport that is played in the high schools.

Next try. You wont find a sport to support you argument.

 

[Tez3]

Why? I don't think gymnasts are embarrassed by rhythmic gymnast or what they do. I don't think Michael Phelps (or any other mainstream swimmer) is embarrassed by synchronized swimming. They all respect each for what it is and what it takes to do it.

But in the MA world for some reason (I think jealousy and not jealousy of the art but of the fact their art’s sport is not represented.) we can't respect Olympic TKD for what it is and what it takes to do it. Everyone thinks they are better and can do better. Then do it. If what you do translates so well and it is so easy to do, then do it. And if you are to old to do it then produce someone that can do it.

Oh and if you use age as an excuse then you have just given the sport some validation. Cause if you think it is so easy to do then your age should not matter and can't be use as an argument.

No one mistakes synchronised swimming for what Micheal Phelps does.

Are you suggesting I'm too old to fight? How bloody insulting.
I said I'd match any one age for age as it would be ridiculous to have a 14 year old against a 24 year old but there really isn't any need to be so nasty or make personal attacks on me.

Jealous my martial art isn't in the Olympics, dear me no, I get down on my knees and thank the lord everyday it's not.

Now I'd be obliged if you will go off and insult someone else, you really are quite objectionable you know.

 

[dancingalone]

Oh yes they are. Every sport you named is done by everyone in every country. Everyone swims. Everyone boxes or fights. And every country plays tennis and many have tried it. In America Tennis is a sport that is played in the high schools.

Next try. You wont find a sport to support you argument.

No way that boxing is a universal activity at all. In the US, it's primarily an urban activity frequently for lower income youth. Look at the profiles of the amateur AAU and professional boxers before you try and claim it.

And no, not everyone swims or plays tennis either. Nor do they play golf. These activities are popular recreational activities, but they are hardly inset into Americana for young boys like football or baseball are.

Did you have anything to say about my other comments?

 

[myusername]

the sport is not as easy as many think [/COLOR]

No one is suggesting it is easy. I have no doubt that it takes a lot of training, skill, talent and fitness to become accomplished. However, what I am suggesting and what I believe others seem to be suggesting is it looks a bit silly and gives people the completely wrong idea of what TKD actually is. Olympic sparring, alongside Mcdojangs and over the top demos negatively effects the credibility and image of the style in the minds of other martial artists and the general public.

I can assure you as a TKD practitioner my opinions are not born of jealousy but more of embarassment to have what I do associated with it.

 

[sadantkd]

I'm getting pretty tired of reading this "laughing stock" tripe. Anybody who is laughing is obviously uninformed because a person who is capable of kicking a world class athlete in the head when it's expected will certainly have no problem kicking an untrained attacker in any target of his choosing. Anybody who thinks I would follow the sport taekwondo rules when defending myself on the street deserves the beating they will surely get.

 

[ATC]

No way that boxing is a universal activity at all. In the US, it's primarily an urban activity frequently for lower income youth.

Boxing is the most universal sport other than running. Boxing is something that is done all over the world. Every kid across the world has imitated a box of choice and has used his fist at some point to fight the school bully or some other kid for some reason. So this sport does not even have to be taught to be a part of any countries culture. Everyone boxes, or understands what they see when two people box.

 

[dbell]

I'm getting pretty tired of reading this "laughing stock" tripe. Anybody who is laughing is obviously uninformed because a person who is capable of kicking a world class athlete in the head when it's expected will certainly have no problem kicking an untrained attacker in any target of his choosing. Anybody who thinks I would follow the sport taekwondo rules when defending myself on the street deserves the beating they will surely get.

Sadantkd, what you say is true in some cases, but any time I have seen some of these top quality TKD competition fighters in a real fight, these great guys on the mat, are less than stealer on the street. They tend to miss the kick, get their support leg kicked out from underneath them, etc. I have seen them try the spinning jump kicks,or jump kicks and watched the person they were fighting just move and the TKD person hit the ground. (Pretty much what I have seen from any Art that has jumping/flying kicks.)

Now, your premise is that the TKD person is fighting an untrained fighter... In this case, it may be true in many instants, but again, I have seen them fail immensely.

 

[sadantkd]

I can't fathom the stupidity of someone who would laugh at a highly trained athlete who is world class in ANY sport. Especially not one that entails kicking somebody in the head with sufficient force to knock them unconcious. If anybody did laugh at me based on something they had no understanding of, I can assure you they wouldn't be laughing after seeing me train. I'm not bragging here or saying I'm so impressive. The same is true for any well trained olympic style taekwondo athlete.

Would you agree that any person who thinks an olympic taekwondo fighter is incapable of transferring and adapting those skills to a self defense situation is obviously uninformed as to the realities of taekwondo? If you agree to that point, then do you really think an uniformed person is gonna be more turned off by watching two people actually trying to kick eachother, or watching oh I don't know say a karate kata with it's low stances weird breathing and techniques that look absolutely ridiculous to someone who doesn't understand?

 

[ATC]

Sadantkd, what you say is true in some cases, but any time I have seen some of these top quality TKD competition fighters in a real fight, these great guys on the mat, are less than stealer on the street. They tend to miss the kick, get their support leg kicked out from underneath them, etc. I have seen them try the spinning jump kicks,or jump kicks and watched the person they were fighting just move and the TKD person hit the ground. (Pretty much what I have seen from any Art that has jumping/flying kicks.)

Huh????? What top quality TKD competitors have you seen in a real fight? I very seriously doubt that you have seen even one of them in a real fight? Names please. I am all for a good debate but please just don't make things up because it sounds good.

 

[sadantkd]

I don't doubt that you have seen this occaisionally, but if they're attempting those types of kicks without having set them up, then by definition, they're not well trained fighters. And another point I'd have to make is that I remember Mike Tyson breaking his hand in a street fight when he was unquestionably the best boxer in the world. So, should I say boxing is worthless on the street? I mean, after all if the best in the world can't use it in a fight without getting hurt. . .

 

[ATC]

No one mistakes synchronised swimming for what Micheal Phelps does.

That was not my comment. I said that Micheal Phelps was not emberassed by other swimming sports such as synchronised swimming. I stated that he repected it for what it was. Not sure why you are stating something I did not say.

Are you suggesting I'm too old to fight? How bloody insulting.
I said I'd match any one age for age as it would be ridiculous to have a 14 year old against a 24 year old but there really isn't any need to be so nasty or make personal attacks on me.

I never made any personal attack on your or your age. When I speak it is in general terms for all to comment on. Nothing is directed to any single person. Sorry if you took it that way.

Also when you compete at any USAT event there are age brackets. Sr's are 17-32. However at 14 you can fight as a Sr. if you choose to. So it is not uncommon to see a 14 year old fight a 24 year old.

Charlotte Craig was only 17 at the last Olympics. I am sure she fought a few 24 year olds and older to get there.

Jealous my martial art isn't in the Olympics, dear me no, I get down on my knees and thank the lord everyday it's not.

Then why are you disrepecting a sport that is if it has nothing to do with you or your art. This is what I do not understand about all the posters that are doing such.

Now I'd be obliged if you will go off and insult someone else, you really are quite objectionable you know.

Again, I did not insult you at all. I never directed any negitive comment towards you at all. If you percived this to be the case I apologize for that but I would apprecieate it if you re-read my comment that you feel was directed at you personally again. I feel that you will see that there was nothing directed to you personally. I don't even know you so how can I make any direct attacks towards you?

 

[Twin Fist]

there is no profit in debating with zealots

 

[sadantkd]

or fools who disparage things they obviously don't understand.

 

[Twin Fist]

kickboxing isnt hard to understand

 

[ATC]

Did you have anything to say about my other comments?

OK, I'll play.

Sport TKD is likewise irrelevant, Olympic flavor or not.

So why does the irrelevant matter so much to you? I tend to ignore what is irrelevant to me.

IMO sport TKD reinforces any negative prejudice lay people may have have.

At least you state that this is your opinion. Most students that take traditional TKD in our dojang respect the sport after trying it. They all state that it looks easier than it is. They are amaze at how fast the guys are that they go up against. We have quite a few adult black belts that have never done the sport side and have learned TKD else ware. Once they try it they all have a new found respect. This is why I don't get all the disrespect for the sport I hear. This is why I know most doing all the negative talking have never done it. It is what it is.

I fully realize sport TKD is an athletic endeavor, requiring plenty of committment and hard work to excel in. However, it is beyond the pale resembling any practical martial application, and that makes it hard for many in martial arts, TKD or not, to take seriously.

The same can be said for all martial arts and their sport. Again this is an issue that the individual needs to get over. I could careless if anyone takes TKD seriously or not. Just as long as they don't put their hands on me we will never have to find out how serious it is.

What of it? You get good at what you practice and train for. A successful sport TKDist would have an equally difficult time in one of my training sessions where we train with makiwara and practice classical locks and pins.

Not sure what you are saying here. So is that a sport that you practice. The two don't translate the same. In TKD we all practice some sort of locks and pins as well. If I come to your class I am sure I can get a lock or pin technique. Now the question is how do you measure my locking and pin abilities? Is there a sport that you do that I can train what I learned to the point of being known as one of the best lockers and pinners? Not sure what you are comparing here.

Anyways, all I am saying is TKD the sport is what it is, and I only hear other martial artis doing the complaining for some reason. I am 100% sure that I would hear the same if it were any other MA in the Olympics. This is why I say it is jealousy. If it weren’t TKD then it would something else. So I guess this thread and all the arguments are irrelevant.

 

[ATC]

I don't doubt that you have seen this occaisionally, . . .

I doubt it very much. When and where would they ever be in real fights? Only thugs and teenage kids have real fights. Who really fights for real? Only people being mugged or robbed but no one else, and then it’s called self defense.:shrug:

 

[ATC]

kickboxing isnt hard to understand

So why is it not on TV anymore (here in the US, I don't know if it is eles ware) or the Olympics?

 

[sadantkd]

Well, I used to have to fight quite often when I was growing up in the 80's. Granted that was before people were shooting eachother for no reason. Anyway, I didn't feel it was my place to call him a liar, because I don't know what he has or has not seen.