Ymca

[Dirty Dog]

I was a youth worker in our local one despite not being Young, Male or Christian. They didn't try to convert me or even talk to me about religion and I got on very well there. They are the only organisation around us that tries to help the young homeless. I never got the impression they were Protestant in particular, the only 'Christians' they did fend off were the born again lot who I'm afraid were'nt good for the local youth, they were only interested in getting them into their church not homing them or helping them find work. They were very anti Catholic I have to say, they said the Pope was the Anti-Christ, the YMCA bosses weren't happy about that either among a long list of other stuff about them.

Do you think that was a YMCA/Catholic thing, or a Church of England/Catholic thing?

 

[Carol]

Do you think that was a YMCA/Catholic thing, or a Church of England/Catholic thing?

I'm guessing it was neither, it sounds like an Evangelical Protestant/Catholic thing. Not trying to put words in Tez's mouth, but since my relatives are a mix of both...well.....you get the picture

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh, now it makes since… they would not let my mother-in-lawin on the family plan. They claimed it was two adults only, my wife and I… butnow I see it was because they knew she was a Buddhist

I actually do not care what religion they are affiliated with, I thing they are a good thing

 

[Bill Mattocks]

After all, the Roman Catholic Church has never (to my knowledge) changed their official position on the structure of the universe. Dogma still insists that the Earth is the center of the universe. But I don't think you're going to find priests claiming that this is the actual state of things.

You would be incorrect about the Church's "Official Position" then or now on the structure of the universe. Dogma insists no such thing. There is not thing about your statement that is factual, except the part where you admit you have no knowledge.

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-anti-catholic’s-trump-card

Did the Church reverse itself on Galileo only as recently as 1992?
Galileo died in 1642. In 1741, Pope Benedict XIV granted an imprimatur to the first edition of the complete works of Galileo. In 1757, a new edition of the Index of Forbidden Books allowed works that supported the Copernican theory, as science had reached the point where the theory could be proven.

The story of Galileo has nothing to do with the Church being opposed to science. Galileo was condemned because he could not scientifically prove his theory to be fact, because he was undermined by many of his fellow scientists, and because he had purposefully blurred the lines between science and theology.

Nor are you going to find YMCA/TSA-types checking people for rosary beads.

http://ymca.net/about-us/

Our Impact is Felt Every Day

With a mission to put Christian principles into practice through programs that build a healthy spirit, mind and body for all, our impact is felt when an individual makes a healthy choice, when a mentor inspires a child and when a community comes together for the common good.

http://www.aberdeenymca.org.uk/

A VERY WARM WELCOME and thank you for visiting the official Aberdeen YMCA website from all our members, leaders and directors.

Our new and improved website gives complete information about our outreach programme to children, youth and the north-east of Scotland which we have been undertaking since 1858!

The Aberdeen YMCA is a Christian outreach to predominantly unchurched children and youths. It is however our desire to serve others by maintaining effective links with other groups so that the use of our centre and resources are maximised to fulfil the Paris Basis of the YMCA movement.

I have not stated that the YMCA checks for Rosary beads, although you did respond by attacking the Catholic church when I did not in any way attack the YMCA or Protestants. I think that speaks volumes to your agenda.

I did say that the YMCA is a Christian organization. It is. Care to dispute that?

I did say that the YMCA is Protestant. Since it is not Catholic and it is 'non-denominational', it falls into the category commonly known as "Protestant." Care to dispute that?

I did say that the Catholic Church forbade membership in the YMCA to Catholics at the beginning of the 20th Century, and it has not officially rescinded that position, and it did. Care to dispute that?

Kindly refute what I said, not what I did not say, and refrain from attacking the Catholic church unless you know what you're talking about.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Bill, I didn't write anything that was intended as an attack. That you took it as such, and that you see me as having some sort of "agenda" is, in my opinion, ludicrous.

There are plenty of sources (not sponsored by the catholic church) which document, quite clearly, the churches position on Copernicanism and the events that occured during the Galileo mess.

The remainder of your response is far too confrontational to be worth responding too.

Have a nice day, and a nice life.

 

[joshbrown]

You guys have it backwards. The YMCA was never anti-Catholic. The Catholic church was anti-YMCA. (notice I said was, past tense)

 

[Bill Mattocks]

You guys have it backwards. The YMCA was never anti-Catholic. The Catholic church was anti-YMCA. (notice I said was, past tense)

In 1868, the YMCA national organization changed their bylaws to allow only Evangelical Christians to hold office or vote in the YMCA.

"Fundamentalists in the city: conflict and division in Boston's churches," By Margaret Lamberts Bendroth, Oxford Press, 2005

The YMCA enacted rules which did not permit non-Evangelical Christians to rent property which the YMCA owned, or to sell property to non-Evangelicals. This was during a period of time in America when anti-Catholicism was running, high, and can clearly be seen as anti-Catholic. Indeed, the Lutheran Witness, Vol 13, stated:

Food for Reflection.

Says James Anthony Fronde, the celebrated historian:

Every true Catholic is bound to think and act as his priest tells him, and a republic of true Catholics becomes a theocracy administered by the clergy. It is only as long as they are a small minority that they can be loyal subjects, under such a constitution as the American. As their numbers grow they will assert their principles more and more. Give them power and the constitution will be gone. A Catholic majority, under spiritual direction, will forbid liberty of worship, and will try to forbid liberty of conscience. It will control education; it will rule the press; it will punish with ex-communication, and ex-communication will be attended with civil disabilities.

The entire nation suffered under an anti-Catholic hatred at the time, how can you then say the YMCA was not anti-Catholic?

It was not until the late 1890's that the Catholic Church responded to the YMCA, and even then, it was clearly in the least offensive way possible:

http://books.google.com/books?id=5u...g=PA83#v=onepage&q=catholic Y.M.C. A.&f=false

ABSOLUTION TO A MEMBER OF THE Y. M. C. A.

Q: Kindly inform me through the Review whether a confessor is bound to refuse absolution to a member of the ''Young Men's Christian Association." If so, why?
A: That the "Young Men's Christian Association" is a distinctly Protestant organization may be easily ascertained from the literature and other methods which they employ for propagating their religious principles. The avowed aim of the various founders of the Association (in English-speaking countries, and particularly) in the United States is, indeed, "the promotion of Christ's Gospel." This aim is worthy of the approbation and co-operation of every man. But since Christ has not only given us His Gospel, but also pointed out —by explicit directions and precepts—the manner of observing the principles contained in His Gospel, we are bound to discard all private interpretation of the same and follow out His instructions regulating religious discipline.

...

A member of Y. M. C. A. may be a better man than many a Catholic, not only before men but before God, who judges each according to his apportioned graces and talents; but the religion of the Y. M. C. A. is not thereby proved to be superior to the Catholic Church, which aims at the complete fulfillment of the Divine Law. He who knows and professes that Law as found in the Catholic Church cannot deliberately adopt a path which leads him away from that Church without risking his eternal salvation. As an honest Catholic, he may fail and fall a hundred times, but he does not lose sight of the true way; as a member of the Y. M. C. A., he may fall less often, but he is in the wrong way.

Now this is clearly Church dogma; I would not take issue with any who disagree with the Catholic Church's statements regarding their way being the only true path. However, you can easily see that their refusal to give Holy Sacrements to a Catholic who is a member of the YMCA is not based on anti-Protestantism or even anti-YMCAism, but on the simple fact that in the view of the Catholic Church, the YMCA is a religious organization, and as such, a Catholic may not belong to it and be in good standing the the Catholic Church as well. The YMCA, on the other hand, explicitly denied board membership or voting rights to non-Evangelical Christians, and this during a time of strong anti-Catholic sentiment in the USA. Yes, a Catholic could join the YMCA. However, they could neither vote, nor hold office. The Catholic Church even stated clearly that many a YMCA man could be a better man, even in God's eyes, than a Catholic man; but their argument was only that the YMCA was a Protestant religious organization, and as such, a Catholic could not belong to it and remain in good standing with the Catholic Church.

Again; I have no quarrel with the YMCA. I sincerely doubt that anyone runs around the weight room placing Protestant tracts out or trying to convert Catholics or examines lockers for evidence of Rosaries. However, when people make note of that, I could just as easily say that BYU is not a religious school, because anyone can attend. It *is* a religious school; your experiences there not withstanding. I don't think the YMCA is anti-Catholic, but they certainly were at one time. And their anti-Catholicism predated any attempt by Catholics to stop the laity from being members of the YMCA. My interest in this is purely historical.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh just admit it Bill... you long for the days of the SpanishInquisition

 

[Bill Mattocks]

More like this:

[video=youtube_share;3f72CTDe4-0]http://youtu.be/3f72CTDe4-0[/video]

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thanks Bill, I forgot all about that one, it was good to see it again

 

[Tez3]

The happy clappy born again lot I was referring to doesn't like the Church of England either, they are to many of our minds extremeists in that they prey on vulnerable people and entice them into their 'church'. A local mental health support group has had a problem with them too as the group has been ambushing mentally ill people telling them that Jesus will look after them so they should stop taking their meds. They also target the Gurkhas which annoys my shift partner because they are very sneaky about what they do, they makes friends with people then come round your house and try to browbeat you, here they are known as G-d botherers!

The Aberdeen YMCA has a more Church of Scotland outlook than anything 'evangelical', Scots like their kirk 'plain' they don't go for anything they regard as fancy. I tend to think that the British idea of what evangelicals should be is a tad different from what Americans think it is. Here it's having a young vicar! The YMCA does a lot of good work with the homeless youngsters without trying to get them to become believers. There is still I'm afraid a bit of anti Catholic feeling in mainland Scotland, their religion is Calvinistic. However out on the Western Isles they are mostly Catholic as the Protestant movement never reached them. The main problem in Scotland is that the Protestant v Catholic argument is the same as the Northern Ireland issue, the two are quite intertwined. Anyone who has ever been at a Glasgow Celtic v Rangers match can tell you about the divide between the two communities. Celtic being the Catholic team and Rangers the Protestant. Death threats were issues only a few months ago to one of the managers.

It is obvious that the YMCA is a Christian organisation, it says so in it's title!

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

I hear allot of martial artist talk of YMCA (I Think its YMCA). From what I hear it sounds like a commercialised dojo or sport hall but specificity for martial arts in America ? Is this correct or is there more to it ?

If I were you, I prefer to train at a club instead of the YMCA because I heard that the Karate lessons there are not that good and operators like to give belt ranks to students like tournament trophies, yeah even kids are black belts there. That's just my opinion, and I'm not trying to discourage you. It is worth going down to your local YMCA and visit a class and talk to the Sensei there, ask questions.

 

[Tez3]

If I were you, I prefer to train at a club instead of the YMCA because I heard that the Karate lessons there are not that good and operators like to give belt ranks to students like tournament trophies, yeah even kids are black belts there. That's just my opinion, and I'm not trying to discourage you. It is worth going down to your local YMCA and visit a class and talk to the Sensei there, ask questions.

Bit sweeping that considering the YMCA is worldwide!

 

[lma]

lol i stay in west lothian .I must not have looked hard enough for them. Also i forgot west lothian may be big now but thats only happened over the last 10 years.

 

[Tez3]

lol i stay in west lothian .I must not have looked hard enough for them. Also i forgot west lothian may be big now but thats only happened over the last 10 years.

Never mind someone has to! We're across in Dalkeith the first weekend in December putting on a fight show if you can make it!

 

[Grenadier]

If I were you, I prefer to train at a club instead of the YMCA because I heard that the Karate lessons there are not that good and operators like to give belt ranks to students like tournament trophies, yeah even kids are black belts there. That's just my opinion, and I'm not trying to discourage you. It is worth going down to your local YMCA and visit a class and talk to the Sensei there, ask questions.

Although it sounds like lumping in everyone, it's not entirely incorrect either.

While it's true that a lot of the schools at the YMCA / YWCA aren't going to be top notch (after all, it's a relatively inexpensive way to start things up), there are also some truly good schools out there that are starting up, taking advantage of the low rent at the YMCA / YWCA. As you pointed out already, it's important to visit the school and speak with the instructors.

After all, my first extended training was with a YWCA, where the teacher didn't have much money, but still taught fairly solid Karate, doing the best that she could with what was available. Even if the school were limited, it still prepared me very well for my future martial arts endeavors.

 

[Tez3]

The YM's themselves aren't responsible for the standard of training of martial arts or any other sport/activities in their buildings, they rent out space at reasonable prices to allow people to do sports, have playgroups, hobbies, whatever etc. It benefits the community as well as enabling them to have money for their own programmes.

 

[ChuckyD]

Yes, sitting and interviewing the sensei is most vital...regardless of the building he instructs in. I'm no veteran, but this would seem the best approach. Rough sport, get a good doctor too. haha

 

[dancingalone]

If I were you, I prefer to train at a club instead of the YMCA because I heard that the Karate lessons there are not that good and operators like to give belt ranks to students like tournament trophies, yeah even kids are black belts there. That's just my opinion, and I'm not trying to discourage you. It is worth going down to your local YMCA and visit a class and talk to the Sensei there, ask questions.

Not to pile on, but one of the better Shotokan sensei I know teaches out of a community center. Not a YMCA, but essentially the same concept on a smaller, municipal scale. He just decided he no longer wanted to deal with the business aspects of trying to keep a dojo open, but the training within the lesser number of hours now available remains excellent.

 

[lma]

Never mind someone has to! We're across in Dalkeith the first weekend in December putting on a fight show if you can make it!

Were about and when ? The main reason I asked about ymca is I'm thinking of doing a sort martial arts / studio community thing. There none round here really and west lothian is getting big now. There's lots of small council run community centres but there getting expensive for what they offer.