Yip Man's curriculum changes

[dudewingchun]

I suspect that Dale80 got himself at least temporarily banned right off the bat for such horrible behavior. And LFJ said he was going to be gone for awhile on a trip. That's why things have calmed down on this thread!

Dont post much anymore but have to say that guy is rediculous

 

[KPM]

Ok guys. Pure speculation to follow!

I am pretty sure that Dale80 got himself banned at least temporarily. So I thought I'd look at his profile page and see if there was any indication of that. When you click on the button for his "profile page" you get an error message and it says the page is unavailable. Then it occurred to me that we hadn't seen Hazardi recently and that he would have been a factor in the current discussion. So I went to his profle page and guess what? Same result! So then I pulled up Guy B.'s page and tried to go to his profile page, and guess what? Same result!

It sure looks to me like there is a strong possibility that Hazardi truly was Guy B. in disguise and it just took awhile for the moderators to actually follow up on it and check it out. So now I'm wondering about Dale80! It sure was a coincidence that he showed up in this thread just when LFJ was needing some support!

Now, I think that as members of this forum we have the right to know when someone is trying to BS us! But the moderators don't agree with that.

 

[wckf92]

Ok guys. Pure speculation to follow!

I am pretty sure that Dale80 got himself banned at least temporarily. So I thought I'd look at his profile page and see if there was any indication of that. When you click on the button for his "profile page" you get an error message and it says the page is unavailable. Then it occurred to me that we hadn't seen Hazardi recently and that he would have been a factor in the current discussion. So I went to his profle page and guess what? Same result! So then I pulled up Guy B.'s page and tried to go to his profile page, and guess what? Same result!

It sure looks to me like there is a strong possibility that Hazardi truly was Guy B. in disguise and it just took awhile for the moderators to actually follow up on it and check it out. So now I'm wondering about Dale80! It sure was a coincidence that he showed up in this thread just when LFJ was needing some support!

Now, I think that as members of this forum we have the right to know when someone is trying to BS us! But the moderators don't agree with that.

Wow...that is just weird!

 

[Juany118]

Wow...that is just weird!

Well I assume someone high enough in the "admin" chain of command could likely check IPs so not really that weird. That said the Mods have a strict policy, they don't discuss such matters and I respect that. They can't stay mum on one and then chat about the other. That's how most web sites work.

 

[Transk53]

Ok guys. Pure speculation to follow!

I am pretty sure that Dale80 got himself banned at least temporarily. So I thought I'd look at his profile page and see if there was any indication of that. When you click on the button for his "profile page" you get an error message and it says the page is unavailable. Then it occurred to me that we hadn't seen Hazardi recently and that he would have been a factor in the current discussion. So I went to his profle page and guess what? Same result! So then I pulled up Guy B.'s page and tried to go to his profile page, and guess what? Same result!

It sure looks to me like there is a strong possibility that Hazardi truly was Guy B. in disguise and it just took awhile for the moderators to actually follow up on it and check it out. So now I'm wondering about Dale80! It sure was a coincidence that he showed up in this thread just when LFJ was needing some support!

Now, I think that as members of this forum we have the right to know when someone is trying to BS us! But the moderators don't agree with that.

Seemed obvious threads and threads ago.

 

[Juany118]

Seemed obvious threads and threads ago.

I think the fact the Hazardi said "your wrong, thats wrong, this is perfect, you're not." but followed it with a pleasant goodbye, threw people. Me? I initially assumed it was camouflage at best, at worst sarcasm but then I have over the years become more than a little cynical and suspicious of just about everything and everyone.

 

[geezer]

Too bad that our Mods have to be so ethical and all that. It would be really fun to know if KPM is right. It would explain sooo much!

Also it would clear up a lot. Like for example, Dale claimed to be a David Peterson WSL VT student, but he acted and argued from the same perspective as LFJ and Guy. Perhaps pretending to present a more unified "WSL opposition" to the rest of us. But I now seriously doubt that he accurately represents David Perterson's school. Just goes to show that you have to be very cautious about any info you get online.

 

[bully]

This thread could have been awesome but it went to rat sh*t very quickly.

Im looking at the ad's for Katanas/Mature singles in the side bar and finding them much more interesting than the 30 pages of bickering.

That is a sad fact.

 

[KPM]

Too bad that our Mods have to be so ethical and all that. It would be really fun to know if KPM is right. It would explain sooo much!

Also it would clear up a lot. Like for example, Dale claimed to be a David Peterson WSL VT student, but he acted and argued from the same perspective as LFJ and Guy. Perhaps pretending to present a more unified "WSL opposition" to the rest of us. But I now seriously doubt that he accurately represents David Perterson's school. Just goes to show that you have to be very cautious about any info you get online.

And THAT is exactly why we should have the right to know if someone was BSing us!

 

[Transk53]

I think the fact the Hazardi said "your wrong, thats wrong, this is perfect, you're not." but followed it with a pleasant goodbye, threw people. Me? I initially assumed it was camouflage at best, at worst sarcasm but then I have over the years become more than a little cynical and suspicious of just about everything and everyone.

Yeah. Not sure if that is age or job related for me lol.

 

[Marnetmar]

While we're trying to rebuild the ruins of this thread, let's talk about the forms:

Interesting tidbit on the dummy video:

it was taught to me by lun gai that when yip man sifu first taught the dummy set in foshan it was not a set pattern but groups of individual exercises, and that the main goal should be to "free flow" on the dummy. in sifu lun gai's own word to me " first 1-2-3 .... then 3-2-1...then 1-5-2-6..." the idea is that after you understand the movements on the dummy you can change and flow with them any which way you want.

 

[Juany118]

While we're trying to rebuild the ruins of this thread, let's talk about the forms:

Interesting tidbit on the dummy video:

The last part actually makes a lot of sense. Especially if you look at this video...

I posted this on another thread. At :50 it talks about how YM himself did it free form as well. I have also read where some people say (and this might annoy some people) YM created the wooden dummy "form" straight up so that he could keep students paying tuition by having more forms to teach. If you had all the empty hand forms and your own dummy, you could do more training on your own. Gotta love legends.

 

[Vajramusti]

The last part actually makes a lot of sense. Especially if you look at this video...

I posted this on another thread. At :50 it talks about how YM himself did it free form as well. I have also read where some people say (and this might annoy some people) YM created the wooden dummy "form" straight up so that he could keep students paying tuition by having more forms to teach. If you had all the empty hand forms and your own dummy, you could do more training on your own. Gotta love legends.

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Sorry. The jong when done well is a very important part of development of wing chun skills. Doing it free form and doing it on the dummy teaches complimentary but quite different skills.

 

[Juany118]

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Sorry. The jong when done well is a very important part of development of wing chun skills. Doing it free form and doing it on the dummy teaches complimentary but quite different skills.

I know, that is why I clarified at the end "gotta love legends" which, to a degree sadly (and I mean this sincerely as a person obsessed by history), is a part of the discussion as to the evolution of many TCMAs. I could have made that more clear I suppose.

 

[LFJ]

Simultaneous attack and defense? Nothing special about that. In many Western martial traditions influenced by fencing, it's called a Single-Time Counter. It certainly exists in boxing, particularly in "Old School Boxing." I've posted numerous references to it before.

The fact that you seem to be ignorant of single-time counters in boxing makes me question whether or not you are qualified to make such a comparison.

No. As I said, the author of the article you posted doesn't know what LSDD is. You make the same assumption as he.

LSDD in YMVT refers specifically to dual-function in a single limb, the unique skill of VT, not just two arms working together in a "single-time counter".

It doesn't exist in any style of Western Boxing.

 

[LFJ]

So, as it finally emerges after many pages of pretty pointless banter.....LFJ's theory seems to be this:

Ip Man took the LDBK pole form that predates Wing Chun and that is found within the Hung Kuen system as well as other systems. He then managed to completely set aside and forget his years of training Wing Chun with Chan Wah Shun and Ng Chung So and his years of practicing alongside Yiu Choi and Yuen Kay Shan. He then created his own version of Wing Chun completely from scratch using only the pole and the knives as his guide.

There is no way you could have honestly reached this conclusion.

The very reason I joined this thread was to say YM did not create any of his VT.

I'm not coming back to this again, so to be clear;

I DO NOT BELIEVE YIP MAN CREATED HIS OWN VING TSUN.

 

[Transk53]

There is no way you could have honestly reached this conclusion.

The very reason I joined this thread was to say YM did not create any of his VT.

I'm not coming back to this again, so to be clear;

I DO NOT BELIEVE YIP MAN CREATED HIS OWN VING TSUN.

Feeling grouchy then? So are youing saying that Ip Man stuck to doctrine. Never a moment of I like this.

 

[KPM]

There is no way you could have honestly reached this conclusion.

The very reason I joined this thread was to say YM did not create any of his VT.

I'm not coming back to this again, so to be clear;

I DO NOT BELIEVE YIP MAN CREATED HIS OWN VING TSUN.

Ah! Welcome back LFJ! I hope your trip went well!

But I am confused. Can you explain exactly what it is that you DO believe? Because all through this thread you have been somewhat vague and have avoided just coming right out and stating clearly what your theory actually is!

You have said that YMVT was developed entirely from the pole and knives, and that this way of development applies only to YMVT. Yet then you turn around and say that YM did not create any of his VT. So exactly who created it???

 

[Dylan9d]

Ok guys. Pure speculation to follow!

I am pretty sure that Dale80 got himself banned at least temporarily. So I thought I'd look at his profile page and see if there was any indication of that. When you click on the button for his "profile page" you get an error message and it says the page is unavailable. Then it occurred to me that we hadn't seen Hazardi recently and that he would have been a factor in the current discussion. So I went to his profle page and guess what? Same result! So then I pulled up Guy B.'s page and tried to go to his profile page, and guess what? Same result!

It sure looks to me like there is a strong possibility that Hazardi truly was Guy B. in disguise and it just took awhile for the moderators to actually follow up on it and check it out. So now I'm wondering about Dale80! It sure was a coincidence that he showed up in this thread just when LFJ was needing some support!

Now, I think that as members of this forum we have the right to know when someone is trying to BS us! But the moderators don't agree with that.

I still think it was weird, that Hazardi guy was in Holland for 15 years and he didnt understand dutch when I wrote him a message......

 

[Vajramusti]

There is no way you could have honestly reached this conclusion.

The very reason I joined this thread was to say YM did not create any of his VT.

I'm not coming back to this again, so to be clear;

I DO NOT BELIEVE YIP MAN CREATED HIS OWN VING TSUN.

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KPM's history is garbled.IM pole usage is not related to hung kuen.
There is coninuity in IM's development of wing chun.