Yellow

[Michael_Browne]

As I understand it, the Yellow Belt did not intitally exist. The system used to go from white to Orange. Yellow was added later down the line. As such, some schools teach the Yellow material, and some schools do not. This is some what evidenced by the web of knowledge in reference to attacks. There are not weapon attacks on the Orange Belt list while there are weapon attacks on the Yellow Belt list. I might be wrong, but that was the information relayed to me.

Michael Browne

 

[rmcrobertson]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Makes you wonder what would happen if a student only ever learned yellow belt material but practiced it daily as any other student might.

Dear Gooey...wait, Mr. Ronin:

I think it's pretty simple. They'd probably kill most martial artists. My understanding is, it's like what I was taught back some time ago about novels: in a great novel, everything's there on the first page. Problem is, you have trouble recognizing that everything was there on the first page, until you read the whole novel and its last page.

As far as I can tell, the only time I've intellectually impressed Larry tatum was the time he asked how I felt about my upcoming 2nd brown test, and I blurted out, "Pretty good. My yellow, orange and purple techniques are really starting to look like something."

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
I think it's pretty simple. They'd probably kill most martial artists. My understanding is, it's like what I was taught back some time ago about novels: in a great novel, everything's there on the first page. Problem is, you have trouble recognizing that everything was there on the first page, until you read the whole novel and its last page.
As far as I can tell, the only time I've intellectually impressed Larry tatum was the time he asked how I felt about my upcoming 2nd brown test, and I blurted out, "Pretty good. My yellow, orange and purple techniques are really starting to look like something."

That was by far the smartest thing I have ever seen you post that did not make me want to slap you.
Congrats!
:rofl:

 

[Seig]

I make all of my students routinely go back and work their yellow belt techniques. During one of my weekly sparring classes, I pick ONE and work it all night, on each of them. Then I make them go back and re-examine the yellow techs for something they may not have seen before and to keep polishing the techs. The very fact that I can take any one of the yellow belt techniques and routinely apply it while sparring brown belts and continue to use it effectively just reaffirms the genius of the system we all love.

 

[GouRonin]

Why is it many Kenpo schools want to start teaching the techniques right away along with the basics? Is it student retention? Do they thing the students won't stay if they make them do basics till they get it right? I've seen instructors take students on their first day and start teaching Delayed Sword first thing.

What up wit dat?

 

[WilliamTLear]

Basics are good, but the practitioner gets a better understanding of those basics when they are put together in a technique.

Don't get me wrong, I think the basics should be drilled hard, and regularly. I just think the student should be able to put some of it together early on, so that they can at least expereince a little bit of the road before they commit to traveling it.

You friend,
Billy Lear :asian:

 

[Nightingale]

delayed sword, and the other yellow techs, help give a "whole picture" view of the basics. It lets the student see further potential in what they're doing, and reinforces the idea that you don't just block and stop. Even if they don't have the skill yet to really make the tech work, it gives them something to strive for, and a little bit of kenpo philosophy. It is a way to start showing how things work together.

 

[GouRonin]

If a person can't execute a proper inward block what is the point of teaching them delayed sword?

 

[jaybacca72]

if systema beginners don't focus on basics only in a flow then why should you think kenpo to be any different,besides i have taught both ways with delayed sword on the first day and only basics,and i have found techniques taught right away to be the better for my students.
later
jay

 

[GouRonin]

I understand where you are coming from. I think we need to seperate business from art sometimes though but I get what you are saying.

 

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by GouRonin

If a person can't execute a proper inward block what is the point of teaching them delayed sword?

because in learning the proper execution of delayed sword, they gain understanding about how an inward block is supposed to look and what it is supposed to accomplish, thus improving the inward block by adding more information and understanding to what the student has already.

 

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

because in learning the proper execution of delayed sword, they gain understanding about how an inward block is supposed to look and what it is supposed to accomplish, thus improving the inward block by adding more information and understanding to what the student has already.

You are correct nightingale8472. You have to teach application, so that the student can see it in action. Basics by themselves are good, but true mastery of the basics does stem from ones ability to put it together and make it work. Excellent Post!

Your Friend & Kenpo Brother,
Billy Lear :asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
because in learning the proper execution of delayed sword, they gain understanding about how an inward block is supposed to look and what it is supposed to accomplish, thus improving the inward block by adding more information and understanding to what the student has already.

I agree that the next step on the ladder would be to teach the block in application. However I think they should learn the theory behind the block first, then put it into application. Having someone start off their first class with Delayed Sword seems to be a bit of the horse before the cart.

 

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by GouRonin

I agree that the next step on the ladder would be to teach the block in application. However I think they should learn the theory behind the block first, then put it into application. Having someone start off their first class with Delayed Sword seems to be a bit of the horse before the cart.

The horse did come before the cart. Doh!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[GouRonin]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Oh my gawd! That's hilarious! Thanx Billy. You're absolutely right. I got those two bass ackwards!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Why is it many Kenpo schools want to start teaching the techniques right away along with the basics? Is it student retention? Do they thing the students won't stay if they make them do basics till they get it right? I've seen instructors take students on their first day and start teaching Delayed Sword first thing.

What up wit dat?

Just because YOU cant handle ALL that much material in a lesson ........ does not mean that others cant.

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by GouRonin
If a person can't execute a proper inward block what is the point of teaching them delayed sword?

A ..... Duhhhhhhhhh.

Maybe the technique helps to teach the basics. It may depend upon perception and what your methods of instruction are... (and Yes I realize the handicap that you have Gou) hee hee

:asian:

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear

Basics are good, but the practitioner gets a better understanding of those basics when they are put together in a technique.

You friend,
Billy Lear :asian:

Give that man a cigar! :wink:

Gou, we teach Inward Block, Handsword, Horse, Bow, Attention, Neutral Bow, Front Snap kick (not necessarily in that order) and maybe some others (I don't often teach the intros right now) and then tie it all together with Delayed Sword so they can see how this works as a Self-Defense technique.

Sort of a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe also an "See what you can learn, sign up now" thing, but I personally find it helps me to know what the big picture is, even if I don't get it right away.

And of course, this does not mean that we are finished drilling the Inward Block... but now on week 27... repetition 1035 they know that this Block was shown to have an application way back on Day one, that it is important, and that it may come in very handy later.

It is also possible that someone will come in and not get this in their first lesson and maybe not even by the time the Intro Lessons are done... it depends.

I think I beat the horse to death. Billy put it rather well.
:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Just because YOU cant handle ALL that much material in a lesson ........ does not mean that others cant. Yes I realize the handicap that you have Gou

Yes. I guess I am a retard.

Originally posted by cdhall
we teach Inward Block, Handsword, Horse, Bow, Attention, Neutral Bow, Front Snap kick (not necessarily in that order) and maybe some others (I don't often teach the intros right now) and then tie it all together with Delayed Sword so they can see how this works as a Self-Defense technique.

All in the first lesson? Wow...I guess American Kenpoists must be advanced level genious people. After all, I'm not sure I could handle that much info in one lesson. After all, I have a handicap and all....
:shrug:

 

[Nightingale]

personally, I don't teach that much in a lesson. since my old studio didn't have yellow techs, I'd teach #1 orange, and only the components that went with it. (outward block, dragons strike, palmstrike)

And then we'd go over the front snap kick, because for some reason, when people start martial arts, they want to kick things.