Yellow Belt techniques...

[Bob Hubbard]

I've heard that some techniques were removed as he found better ways to meet the same goals, or were rearanged due to difficulty.

I believe Mr. Parker was always looking to improve his art, hense the many variations we see based on when a certain instructor was with him.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

:asian:

 

[jaybacca72]

well big dog i think you are chewing on the wrong bone here.i just finished training for two days on yellow with huk and i honestly believe you are off in left field as far i have learned category completion is when you say have a strike like a middle knuckle in clutching feathers,then one done on a different plane like leaping crane,then the reverse plane on the ending of obscure claws from what i have heard about yellow belt it was a starting program but it was meant for marketing (not kids and then adults.) so if you choose to debate with me iam more than willing to verebally spar with you as we have in the past............
i say this with LOVEhahahahahahahahahaha.
later jay

 

[jaybacca72]

i have been called many things but never that,it amuses me thanks. i believe you when you say you discussed things with sgm but did you ever wonder if he told you what was really done earlier on in kenpo and decided to change the story later on to appease some,it's no different than frank saying when sgm died the color left the patch and that is why his is black and white but real reason is the maker of the patch assumed it was black and white because they did not recieve the colors for it by mistake.so now when you hear frank relay this story it sounds great and everything turned out fine,i personally like the black and white patch myself,so could it be the same thing happened with the interpretation on the inclusion of yellow belt. i have heard my explanation from many different soucres on yellow belt and the frank story i heard directly from him.no disrespect big dog i like debating with you for fun if not for anything else you should know that by now as for big guy's response i think huk is responsible for alot of the seniors in the game today but like you said his way is not the only way but it is definitely one of the most thorough and credible paths to choose.
later
jay

 

[Big Guy]

opinions are like a** and they all stink. But anybody who knows anything will choose to believe in those they believe in. And who can explain the whys and wherefores and who truly knows what category completion is. At this time there is only one true leader in the kenpo community who knows the whys and wherefores but as I said in the beginning opinions are like a**
sincerely THE BIG GUY :soapbox: :cheers: :cheers: :knight: :apv:

 

[Blindside]

Gou posted:
"Just as your weight settles into your horse stance, execute a right back hammerfist strike to your opponent's groin. (This action should cause your opponent to bend forward at the waist, and possibly release his grasp.)"

These are open to discussion right?

I've always felt that this motion wouldn't release the grip. The first thing you've done is pin their hands to your body, I'm assuming their grip is hand to their own hand/wrist. Then you hit them in the groin. My and I think most guys (I'm using guys because this isn't a good angle for a groin shot on a woman) reaction is to crouch down and tighten up, not release. I think the most likely scenario here is you wind up in the other guys clinch.

Any other opinions?

Damn "what ifs."

Lamont

 

[Blindside]

Hi Mr. Thomas,

You posted:
"Just want to know why in kenpo there is different techniques for right & left hand punch . Shouldn't you be able to preform the same technique both right and left hand."

Techniques are merely vehicles to impart the conceptual basis of the system. A single technique is for say a right straight punch can also easily be used for a right hand grab, maybe a right thrust from a knife, probably for a double lapel grab, etc.

The reason (or more correctly, A reason) why different techniques are shown against a left or right punch may be to show different concepts, combinations, or patterns. If you right inward block your opponents right punch, you will probably be going to his "outside" and the remaining technique will finish there. If you right inward block your opponents left punch you will likely wind up working "inside" with a different choice of targets. Thus you have two different ideal techniques.

Learning mirror image techniques is addressed in some of the higher Long forms that do require doing the same technique to either side of the attack. It is left to the individual to go through and learn all the mirror techniques.

Hope that helped,

Lamont

 

[Kirk]

Because ........
He's in Dutch!!

I don't follow.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Hee hee......... well, He came up originally under Tom Kelly, who originally came up under Steve LaBounty who I look to for guidence.

Guess we have a good gene pool here!

:asian:

GD7,

Do you teach Intellectual Departure as part of your yellow
belt curriculum?

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



No, that technique was deleted years ago (early 80's). Sword and Hammer replaced it.

Just for the record however, I like the technique and use some of its movements all the time in sparring.

:asian:

Okay, well I had planned, if you said no to my question, then
to say pretty much what Rob just said, only not say it so well.
So if you please, sir .. answer Rob (my) question?

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



Intellectual Departure was deleted because of the sophistication of the Technique at this level. If you examine the actions they are a little above the Yellow belt level of necessity, Sword and Hammer is much better for the beginner.

I can believe that, it sure seemed like the most complex of the
techs that we were taught at my school. But if you picture it
like a box, and each corner is a direction you face to perform
a technique, then the bottom left corner is left out.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

details can make a difference!

:asian:

That's why I''m so into kenpo! So many small details of each
and every technique give you something to constantly work
on. It's like a never ending lesson! Just when you get to
the point where you're executing a tech really well, along comes
my instructor who'll say, "you need to be sure to bend that
right knee more, and I'll tell ya why" .. and then go into 20
different reasons why. That's why I feel confident that I'll pursue
kenpo for years. It's that same never ending supply of
information in the computer programming field that got me to
choose it as my career. I may be 80 when I get like a 4th deg.
or something, but hell, I'm just confident that I'll be there that
many years from now! And when I have to leave here to go
to that great "kenpo school in the sky" ... bury me in my ghi!

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Big Guy

At this time there is only one true leader in the kenpo community who knows the whys and wherefores

And who might that be?

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by AvPKenpo

On a side note how many of you guys practice your techniques in reverse order? Just something to chew on.

Hmm, never thought of that. I keep the techs I've learned on
index cards, and for some reason, I've kept them in order. No
idea why. I'm gonna start shuffling them from now on.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by AvPKenpo



It is a good idea to rearrange your material,helps you with spontinaiety(SP) but not quite what I was meaning. LOL What I meant was to do a technique forwards then backwards. And learn how it can be adapted to the same attack. For instance Delayed hand starts by stepping back into a rt. nuetral bow, rt. inward block front snap kick with the rt. leg, marriage of gravity with an outward handsword strike to the neck.
But instead lets try it backwards, the outward handsword strike becomes a block/chop stepping into a rt. nuetral bow with a right front snap kick ending with an inward block to check the attackers arm. Remember leave all your checks in the proper places.

Hmmm, another good idea. Doesn't sound easy though

 

[Kirk]

Those were great GD7!!!! I copied them, for future reference
or posting on a web site

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Even if you don't get out it allows for you to be mobile inside the clinch to continue with your technique.

However, I have never been a big fan of this technique and prefer the old "Spreading Branch" because I feel it allows you to follow the rule of establishing your base and keeping it. On top of that I find it has less danger of developing into a headlock.

Just my 2 cents.

But the techniques are slightly different. In Captured twigs the oppenent doesn't step with you he has a narrow base, so the leg sweep doesn't work. I am not saying you couldn't force it, but it just doesn't work the same. In Spreading the branch he steps wide with you so the leg sweep is available.

Michael

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

but if you were to sit down with a good American Kenpo Instructor you would find that we actually DO teach the principles and anatomy of an attack and much more. Sure at the basic level of learning you learn the model structure but to become a useful technique you definately need the principles.

:asian:

DANGIT..........you beat me to the punch yet once again. I guess I am going to have to work harder at my reaction time. LOL.

I agree with what GD7 says. You have to find a qualified and proficient teacher. I know sometimes that is hard to find, there are a lot of people that teach theories, concepts, and principals that do not understand them. So as it goes .......... the water gets muddier further from the source.

Kempojujutsu stated that 'Parker/Tracy/American they like to step away from the attack, like a punch. In Okinawan Kempo they like to step into the punch to defend . This makes more since to me then stepping away.'
Distance is your friend, when we teach a student that is new to the MA we teach them to step back, with stepping back such as in Delayed Hand a begginer lengthens his string (in other words creates more time for him to react within). Whereas stepping in you had better be perfect. Later on the first list of techniques we do teach however to step in. Kinda of introducing them to the idea of, you don't always have to be passive or just responsive, but that you can also be aggressive. All people fight differently, they will adopt what they are comfortable with. Remember when you start teaching (or if you are already), just becuase you like to be close or far away, does not mean that the person you are teaching will be comfortable at that range. I feel that you do need to show them both, and teach correct principles so they can have a more indepth understanding and choose for themselves.
:asian:

O......and I believe that we actually have more techniques that step into a punch than step back.........I'll have to count.......

Michael

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

Just want to know why in kenpo there is different techniques for right & left hand punch . Shouldn't you be able to preform the same technique both right and left hand. Would this help make it less confussing, especial when being attack. Just a question not trying to pick a fight or piss anyone off.

Don't worry, you won't piss anyone off by asking a question. LOL

Yes and No. Later down the road we will do the same technique left and right handed. We find it less confusing to lower belts. Especially those that are just learning to move like a MA. If you notice that our forms help to introduce the left side or right side of a lot of our techniques(starting with short 1). This helps them to adopt on their own doing a technique on the left side. I personally have noticed that when I have practiced a form at length then I go to spontinaity that I will do the opposite side from what I learned. Also when an individual gets to be more proficient with movement we then ask them to practice both the left and right side of the techniques (just so they can understand the technique more fully).
On a side note how many of you guys practice your techniques in reverse order? Just something to chew on.

Michael

 

[AvPKenpo]

Hmm, never thought of that. I keep the techs I've learned on index cards, and for some reason, I've kept them in order. No idea why. I'm gonna start shuffling them from now on

It is a good idea to rearrange your material,helps you with spontinaiety(SP) but not quite what I was meaning. LOL What I meant was to do a technique forwards then backwards. And learn how it can be adapted to the same attack. For instance Delayed hand starts by stepping back into a rt. nuetral bow, rt. inward block front snap kick with the rt. leg, marriage of gravity with an outward handsword strike to the neck.
But instead lets try it backwards, the outward handsword strike becomes a block/chop stepping into a rt. nuetral bow with a right front snap kick ending with an inward block to check the attackers arm. Remember leave all your checks in the proper places.

Michael

 

[AvPKenpo]

No its not easy..........but it does open you up to new ideas.

Michael