WTF clubs that credits General Choi as founder and/or developer of TaeKwonDo

[KabutoKouji]

Even before the General died the group I trained under split from the I think 'official' ITF body in the UK (TAGB), to set up UTAW, and I think there was a lot of bad blood even just within that. What I mean to say is that even within TMA, which do seem to be full of politics and skullduggery, Korean stuff seems to be the most intense that way.

 

[Axiom]

This is easily Google-able.

Google Maps

We are told over here in Sweden that those capitalists over there create their own federations and that there's barely any ITF worth mentioning. I would love to visit an ITF school if I ever travel to the US again.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

BTW, he doesn't even need to go into the schools (neccesarily). If the practitioners wear ITF or old Karate doboks, chances are that they are doing Chang Hon patterns.

How much difference is there between the Chang Hon patterns and the newer versions? How much does that tend to affect the overall approach to the art?

 

[KabutoKouji]

I am confused (sorry) - does Chang Hon patterns mean the same 'Chon-ji' based patterns that are/were in ITF, but done pre SW or are they a completely different pattern set?

 

[Axiom]

I am confused (sorry) - does Chang Hon patterns mean the same 'Chon-ji' based patterns that are/were in ITF, but done pre SW or are they a completely different pattern set?

Yes. It refers to both with or without SW. That is up to whether you are affiliated with ITF and want your students to compete in ITF competitions (forms) which demands Sine Wave to be able to win..

 

[TrueJim]

I am confused (sorry) - does Chang Hon patterns mean the same 'Chon-ji' based patterns that are/were in ITF, but done pre SW or are they a completely different pattern set?

I have heard some people refer to the Chang Hon patterns as the Chon-Ji patterns. What does pre-SW mean?

Edit. Oh, Sine Wave. Got it.

 

[Axiom]

Here you can see it referred to as the Chang Hon School,even in 1968.

 

[Axiom]

I have heard some people refer to the Chang Hon patterns as the Chon-Ji patterns. .

All patterns in the ITF are Chang Hon..from yellow belt to the highest grade. But one was taken out (Kodang) and replaced by Juche, in ITF schools in the 80s.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I spent about 20 minutes in 2013 walking around and around one area of Seoul looking for Grandmaster Kang, Ik-pil's dojang (the author of the Kukki-Taekwondo bible!). Eventually I gave up and called him, and he kindly sent two of his students to exactly where I was - and no word of a lie, they walked me maybe 20 yards to a little door, and went upstairs to the dojang.

I'd never have found it, and this is the full-time dojang of a Taekwondo poomsae World Champion, Kukkiwon instructor (he often teaches masters on the Master Instructor Course) and published author.

Does he work for CONTROL?

 

[TrueJim]

All patterns in the ITF are Chang Hon..from yellow belt to the highest grade. But one was taken out (Kodang) and replaced by Juche, in ITF schools in the 80s.

Don't forget U-Nam. U-Nam

 

[TrueJim]

Does he work for CONTROL?

Missed it by THAT much!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So they were either not in existence in 2011, or he was ignorant. Because an ITF-free Chang Hon school is traditional in the right sense of the word IMO

This highlights a problem in your earlier arguments. You state here that there's a possibility the author of that article was ignorant, yet you used him as a sole, authoritative source for most of this thread.

 

[Axiom]

Fun fact: In the original Chang Hon forms, pre ITF, the downward block in Chon ji was performed the same as in Shotokan with the wrist straight.. Later Choii changed it to a bent wrist. Some independent Chang Hon school kept the Shotokan downwards block to this day, as I learned from a former student. Probably because their instructor left before Choi had changed it.

 

[Axiom]

You can see in the old footage I linked from 68, that the demonstrater still uses the Shotokan downard block in the first pattern performed. So he was either being naughty or Choi had still not changed it..

 

[Axiom]

This highlights a problem in your earlier arguments. You state here that there's a possibility the author of that article was ignorant, yet you used him as a sole, authoritative source for most of this thread.

Not at all. I just didn't see the point of using more sources when the largest federation (ITF) for the Chang Hon forms/system was in single digits in the capital of South Korea Post dictatorship

 

[Tez3]

I was referring to the mawashi geri. Their sidekicks also appear to be more "restrained" as it relates to leverage

The kicks are still very effective and can KO you. That's all that matters...that it works.

I'm making a probabalistic claim.

making up words doesn't help you

I completely agree, it is IRRELEVANT. So why bring it up in the first place, troll?

I thought that when I read it, basically 'I brought it up because it was irrelevant'. ok.

 

[Dirty Dog]

So you dispute that the KKW uses a characteristic black collar dobok? Did I get that right?

Yes. The KKW endorses a specific dobak for use by a minority of its students when in competition (most people know, though you may not, that Dan holders are very much a minority).

But more pertinent to your ridiculous claim, I dispute that you can tell what poomsae are taught based on what dobak is worn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Axiom]

The kicks are still very effective and can KO you. .

Changing the goal post. The kicks are not the same, although they may appear to be in the eyes of a layman.

 

[KabutoKouji]

one thing I always wondered when I saw it in Shotokan (I think) diagrams - was the 'twin forearm block' in ITF patterns a modified form of the 'C shaped block'?

having said that maybe not as there are similar movements in Longfist (and I'm sure other arts)

 

[Axiom]

Yes. The KKW endorses a specific dobak for use by a minority of its students when in competition (most people know, though you may not, that Dan holders are very much a minority).

But more pertinent to your ridiculous claim, I dispute that you can tell what poomsae are taught based on what dobak is worn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did not wear the same dobok as a coloured belt in KKW compared to a coloured belt in ITF.