Wing Chun and Animal Techniques.

[Pat]

Well, there may be some disagreement with my answer, but the straight punch is attributed to the Snake.
:drinkbeer

 

[Phil Elmore]

but the straight punch is attributed to the Snake.

Uh, no.

 

[arnisador]

Can you expand on that?

 

[Kevin]

Also called Yongchun Quan. A southern Chinese martial style drived from Southern White Crane during the Qing Qian Long period (1736-1796 A.D.) Ther is a saying that Yongchun Quan was started aby the lady Yan, Yong-Chun who learned Southern White Crane techniques from the Buddhist nun Wumei in the mountains of Yunnan Province.

quoted from "The Essence of Shaolin White Crane" by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming

 

[Pat]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
Uh, no.

This doesn't give us much to go on. I know you have more to say than that.

Also called Yongchun Quan. A southern Chinese martial style drived from Southern White Crane during the Qing Qian Long period (1736-1796 A.D.) Ther is a saying that Yongchun Quan was started aby the lady Yan, Yong-Chun who learned Southern White Crane techniques from the Buddhist nun Wumei in the mountains of Yunnan Province.

quoted from "The Essence of Shaolin White Crane" by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming

This doesn't really answer the question.
:drinkbeer

 

[Kevin]

your right, my mistake...:asian:

 

[Phil Elmore]

Think about it, Pat. A snake is characterized by quick, light, darting, indirect movements. A technique that could rightly be classified as "snake" would be a bil jee to the eyes. That is not compatible with a straight punch, which is much more blunt and direct in nature.

Reread this article and then ask yourself which animal would more accurately be associated with a straight punch.

 

[arnisador]

I guess I'd lean toward Tiger ("explosiveness").

 

[Pat]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
Think about it, Pat. A snake is characterized by quick, light, darting, indirect movements. A technique that could rightly be classified as "snake" would be a bil jee to the eyes. That is not compatible with a straight punch, which is much more blunt and direct in nature.

Reread this article and then ask yourself which animal would more accurately be associated with a straight punch.

Assuming I haven't thought about these things, shame on you, Phil.
I agree that bil jee and straight punch are dissimilar on the surface. However, bil jee does not represent all Snake techniques, and neither does the straight punch. Throw a straight punch and hold it in the extended position, now uncurl your fingers so they are reasonably straight, it is now the extended position of a snake strike. Now, throw a snake strike and hold in the extended position, then curl your fingers into a fist, this is the extended position of the straight punch.
I agree a straight punch is direct, but I wouldn't categorize its energy as "blunt". Some snake strikes are direct also.
By the way I read that article. I don't know the author. I am sure he is a respected instructor. I agree with some of what is in the article and dis agree with other things, but I am not going to point out the things I agree
and disagree with.
Oh yeah, what animal did you say the straight punch is associated with? I must have missed that part.

I guess I'd lean toward Tiger ("explosiveness").

Take "explosiveness" out of Snake movements and "limp noodle" comes to mind.
:drinkbeer

 

[Cthulhu]

The book Complete Wing Chun by Ritchie, Chu, and Wu, has a chapter on Gu Lao Wing Chun, which has technique names such as Gwa lung jeung (hanging dragon palm, Fe mei (tiger's tail), Hok bong (crane wing), and Gwai ma chui (kneeling horse strike).

The chapter on Nanyang Wing Chun lists techniques such as Fong ngan chui (phoenix-eye fist), Ying/fu jow (eagle/tiger claw), and Bak hok chan sa (white crane shovelling sand).

Cthulhu

 

[Phil Elmore]

Originally posted by Pat
Assuming I haven't thought about these things, shame on you, Phil.

You may have thought about them, but given your input on Wing Chun in other threads (such as believing someone who regularly breaks the arms off his wooden dummy "knows what he is doing"), I'd say you're input on these topics is not terribly informed. I'm sorry if that sounds rude; I don't mean it that way. But you're simply saying things that aren't correct.

You do not understand the essential nature of the snake if you associate the straight punch with it. What is your experience with Wing Chun, exactly?

 

[Pat]

Nice try Phil, but I am going to at least try to stay with the discussion at hand. As for my posts in other threads, I'll get back to them in due time.
Discussing my martial arts experience is pointless and I won't do it.
I've heard a lot of , ' I'm wrong about this and mis informed about that', but I haven't heard anything from you about the question at hand. The fact that you don't have anything to add to the discussion, except for trying to change the subject and telling me how wrong I am, only strengthens my position.
:drinkbeer

 

[Phil Elmore]

Nice try Phil, but I am going to at least try to stay with the discussion at hand. As for my posts in other threads, I'll get back to them in due time.

Nice try, Pat, but that's an evasion.

Discussing my martial arts experience is pointless and I won't do it.

Discussing credentials is pointless, but asking you what your experience with Wing Chun might be is very relevant, given that you're expressing opinions about the art that are immediately identifiable as wrong to most people who have practiced it. Either you've trained in Wing Chun or you haven't. I'm not saying you've got to have more than even a few months' exposure to offer a valid opinion, but I've not seen much from you that is accurate so far.

I've heard a lot of , ' I'm wrong about this and mis informed about that', but I haven't heard anything from you about the question at hand.

Then you haven't been listening.

The fact that you don't have anything to add to the discussion, except for trying to change the subject and telling me how wrong I am, only strengthens my position.

The fact that you're trying to mischaracterize my input in the thread, while completely avoiding any questions about from where you draw your questionable information, only strengthens my position. After all, I've only submitted links to articles I've written and articles written by my teacher on this very subject; what could I possibly know about the topic?

You're wriggling, not answering.

 

[leehoicheun]

Pat,

I am a Wing Chun instructor. I have read everything you have stated about martial arts.... especially Wing Chun.... and have stayed silent due to the amusement you give me with your nonsense. I believe that sometimes it is best to not argue with people who

a) OBVIOUSLY don't know what they are talking about or
b) are saying these dumb things just to piss people off.

Pat, wherever you got your info I'd like to know. Please send us a list of books, videos or whatever that backs up your claims about the punch and snake. I have personally studied both the white crane AND snake styles of kung fu and I can say this..... even though they have punches in their forms and in combat.... the punch is NOT associated with them the way you say it is.

in every form, and I mean EVERY form, there is some level of punching. Human beings were balling up fists long before they even thought about creating a martial art. It is a HUMAN thing to do to make a fist. Name an animal that can make a fist the way humans can.

Saying that the punch comes from snake is actually funny. It amused me and I'm sure the others got a chuckle from it as well.

Now on to credentials. You say that

Discussing my martial arts experience is pointless and I won't do it.

that is a clear indication that you are not a "ranked" martial artist. Name your style, school and experiences to back up your bold claims. Until then.... we laugh at you.

There is a joke among Wing Chun practitioners. When someone says

someone who regularly breaks the arms off his wooden dummy "knows what he is doing"

We start laughing. Pat......THAT IS JUST PURE IGNORANCE!

Now pat, you can choose to respond to this message but I will end it with this. I personally think that you may really know the answers..... but you are purposely choosing to give the wrongs ones just to "troll" or stir up the pot of this board. If I'm wrong then I think you might want to REALY study the FACTS of martial arts.

this is the last time I respond to you. Good luck in all your future endeavors and may the power of wisdom stop running away from you
:rofl: :asian:

 

[Phil Elmore]

Ouch.

 

[Cthulhu]

Mod. Note

Keep the conversation on topic.

Cthulhu
-MT Admin.-

 

[Phil Elmore]

I understand your desire to keep the conversation polite and pleasant, Cthulhu, but I can't think of anything more on topic than the validity of the ideas espoused by individual participants.

 

[Pat]

Well, these friendly discussion boards aren't quite as friendly as I had hoped they would be.
:drinkbeer

 

[Phil Elmore]

I don't see anything particularly unfriendly about the exchange. If you're going to offer your opinion on Wing Chun, though, you must be willing to accept criticism when that opinion is not an informed one. Those of us who practice Wing Chun and feel strongly about it become somewhat... agitated... when confronted with public statements about the art that are fundamentally unsound.

 

[Pat]

I am out of this discussion. (But I am sure that no one cares)