Why you should not interfere with a LEO
- Thread starter Kittan Bachika
- Start date
Archangel M
Senior Master
Bottom line. It doesn't matter what you believe or know. It's what the officer REASONABLY BELIEVES at that moment, if he has probable cause he has probable cause.
If the cop has PC to arrest you your belief is inconsequential at that moment. Do you think that we should believe everybody who tells us "I didn't do it"? If I had a nickel for every guilty person who plead their innocence as I was trying to arrest them I'd get that BMW I like.
If the cop has PC to arrest you your belief is inconsequential at that moment. Do you think that we should believe everybody who tells us "I didn't do it"? If I had a nickel for every guilty person who plead their innocence as I was trying to arrest them I'd get that BMW I like.
WC_lun
Senior Master
The cake was dry, but the birthday officer was a cute blonde that I talked to for a while
There was a warrant issued on a paid ticket for the amount of a late fee. Paid date was before the due date, yet a warrant was still issued. I had recieved notification the day before, so actually had paperwork to back up what I was saying as well.
chinto
Senior Master
funny, but something very much like that happened to a female Deputy United States Marshal in LA in the 1990's as I recall..... DEA CI was naming people as dealers by driving by and looking at new homes and things...
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
you figure Darwin would eventually start sorting out the really stupid LEOs though wouldnt ya?
I tell you one thing, anyone wanting to enter my house better be very careful, I consider any breach on my house a life threatening incident and will respond accordingly. I will accomodate a humble cordial respectful officer who is doing his job, I will not accomodate a pile of crap cocky pushy disrespectful bastard who is trying to push me arround and violate my rights. whether they are a LEO or not. Some of you seem to feel that LEOs are better then regular citizens, that is absolutely not the case. Given their power, and ability to misuse and abuse it they need to be held to a higher standard when attempting to use that power as well.
WC_lun
Senior Master
LEO are not better people than anyone else. They do a job tha is dangerous as hell and should be greatly respected for doing it though. I hope you never have officers coming in your door. I can tell you with a certainty they will not come in politley and let you decide if you are going to resist or not. They will take that choice out of your hands because it is the safest method for them to enter a building. At the moment in time of entry you will cooperate one way or another. To think otherwise is both arrogant and a bit foolish. If they make entry for an invalid reason the you have avenues to address that AFTERWARDS. Again, no officer is going to put himself or a fellow officer at any percieved risk because you feel violated and really are innocent.
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
well since I do not do anything Illegal I am not to worried about some quirk of reality happening where a SWAT team feels its necessary to entire my house.
I think the most likely scenario for me to encounter a LEO trying to screw with me would be while driving my car. While I may not dilligently drive strictly within the letter of the law, I would know if I was pulled over that I was doing something wrong or not, and even then I find the likelyhood of a rogue LEO going off unlikely.
I get irritated that some people here seem to think that you should bow down to a LEOs whims no matter what and worry about it afterwards. Once again if anyone including an LEO tries to unlawfully detain or arrest me, hes going down. without a second thought. I will consider it a life threatening situation where the person in question is trying to murder me. the key phrase here is UNLAWFULLY... some of you seem to have no understanding of a LEOs limitations... they are not all powerful.
WC_lun
Senior Master
At the first sign of you resisiting, the officer would do everything in his power to keep you from doing so. A vehicle is not that much difference than a house. In fact, more LEO are killed in traffic stops than any other activity. You would run a greater risk of getting yourself shot. You do not have any right to resist an officer doing his job, whether you think he is or not. You do have a right to address any grievances later. "Taking him down" as you put it only serves to put you into the crap further than you already are. It irritates me when people think they are special and have a right to make an officer's job more difficult and dangerous than it has to be. You have a right to remain silent. You have a right to an attorney. You do not have a right to resist because you feel wrongly prosecuted.
If an officer is steeping over the line, get is badge number. Report his butt and make it so he doesn't have a job. Don't fight him and put yourself in a position where you actually have to do time when you were innocent to begin with. To make matters worse for yourself, when there are avenues other than resisting or violence, just doesn't make any sense.
If an officer is steeping over the line, get is badge number. Report his butt and make it so he doesn't have a job. Don't fight him and put yourself in a position where you actually have to do time when you were innocent to begin with. To make matters worse for yourself, when there are avenues other than resisting or violence, just doesn't make any sense.
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
ya we will have to agree to disagree here. It has nothing to do with me feeling I am special, it has to do with me taking my rights seriously. I think you are assuming that cop is doing his job correctly and I plan on being an *******, thats not the case. I think there is nothing more to be gained from this conversation at this point.
WC_lun
Senior Master
No, from your post I gather you assume to know the officer's job and your rights more than he would and I worry for your well being from that point forward. The good new is since you are a law abiding person, it is most likely a moot point anyway
Peace.
Would you really? Do you know, constantly, whether any of the bulbs on your car have burnt out? Are you familiar with every element of the vehicle code?
Cops aren't better than anyone else. Cops are people like everyone else. But we make calls and decisions in split seconds where others are running in terror. Thankfully, the courts have repeatedly ruled that we get judged by those standards -- not 20/20 hindsight. Though I'm not exactly sure how we've drifted to this point...
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
like I said most cops are cool... if a cop pulls me over and says my bulb is out, I will say thank you take the ticket and go get the light replaced and pay the fix it ticket cost.
if he wants to pull me out of my car and start getting antsy then there is a good chance there is going to be an issue. this has been a long run on BS back and forth about this, what I took exception to was the comment that you should just accept anything a cop does no matter what.... that I say is BS, I clarified on it and now all you guys want to run ridiculous scenarios by me to test my comments.. its stupid. I said UNLAWFUL... what about pulling someone over for a broken tail light is unlawful? serious do you guys think at all? or just assume I am some rogue monster looking to get into with cops? lame
oh and dont give me that where others are running in terror bullcrap. I have seen a few situations where some cops damn near wet their pants, the one thing you said correctly was that cops are people like everyone else.. other then that all bets are off.
That's not what we said. We did say that, rather than resist, go with the program. There's a time and place to fight. In the street isn't the time or place.
In the same way, there's a time and place to address concerns about police conduct when they arrest someone in your presence. File a complaint. Ask to speak to a supervisor about what you saw. Depending on what it is -- bring it here. Or to the "Ask A Cop" sections on many police forums (like OfficerResource.com) But don't jump in and grab the cop...
All of this goes out the window in the VERY rare circumstance IN THE UNITED STATES where you're dealing with such a corrupt cop that to go along means submitting to your death.
Archangel M
Senior Master
Lots of people are big talkers. Very few are big doers. I've seen far more doing by LEO's than anybody else. Hero or coward, most do what they are being paid to do. Try going into an armed domestic assault call sometimes. Typically I avoid personal commentary, but I have seen so many of my brethren killed this year that lucky can kiss my big blue *** with his commentary on our courage.
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
I know plenty of non cops who are courageous. I also have met more then one cop who was a coward with a power trip. Cops are regular people, some are outstanding, some suck, but so do people in almost every other sector of our country. If you are in such a fantasy land that you are feeling all butthurt thinking i demeaned your profession then so be it. I could care less. You can think your all superman for all I care, just make sure to bring your red cape.. Im out of this thread, its not worth discussing with someone who is defensive about it to the point of being blind.
I don't think it's a question of better. I think it's more the reality that no matter what you do the LEO are a bigger gang and will win the short fights. In your scenario, a SWAT team bust in with a signed warrant and you shoot at them, it's unlikely you will come out alive. You surrender, prove your innocence and get the charges dropped you walk away with maybe some bruises. It's great to be idealistic, but as George Carlin points out, the whole secret to life is not dying
Can't view the vids from the computer I'm currently on, but until then, I'll just comment on the recent discussion. In the few instances that I've dealt with a LEO, I did everything I could, to put them at ease and my my dealing with them a bit more easy for both of us. I wasnt a dick. I turned on the interior light and placed my hands on the wheel. When asked for my DL, I told him where it was prior to going for it. No issues, no problems, nothing.
If I were to feel wronged, I'm certainly not going to be an *** about it in the middle of the road. Whether or not I feel its right or wrong, if he wanted me to get out of the car so he could take a look inside, fine, I'll get out. I'm not going to be an ***. Why? Because that IMO, is the beginning of the end. Once you start being an *******, you're setting yourself up to fail. As others said, if you feel wronged, deal with it later. File the complaint later. Being a dick, fighting, etc, isnt going to solve a problem, its going to create one.
I find it funny, that people tend to think that theres a huge roving band of bad apples. I'm not saying they dont exist, but I dont think they're as common as people make them out to be.
If I were to feel wronged, I'm certainly not going to be an *** about it in the middle of the road. Whether or not I feel its right or wrong, if he wanted me to get out of the car so he could take a look inside, fine, I'll get out. I'm not going to be an ***. Why? Because that IMO, is the beginning of the end. Once you start being an *******, you're setting yourself up to fail. As others said, if you feel wronged, deal with it later. File the complaint later. Being a dick, fighting, etc, isnt going to solve a problem, its going to create one.
I find it funny, that people tend to think that theres a huge roving band of bad apples. I'm not saying they dont exist, but I dont think they're as common as people make them out to be.
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
maybe I'm a little Jaded, I grew up with Craig Peyers Daughter. My earliest memory of police are of this man. He lived right around the corner from me.
Since then I have been friends with many cops, and I have found more of them then not to be more likely to do something worng because they could get away with it... including drunk driving, shooting their firearms off the San Mateo Bridge at Seagulls in the Bay area on a drunken bender, ganging up and beating up people at a party, bar, beach party drunk. abuse their power regularly when in public, I regularly see cops breaking traffic laws because they want to go pull into a place to get food, or simply want to drive at 80-85 on the freeway instead of stay at the speed limit. I have had to step in more then once on a cop "tuning" his wife up because he was stressed out and she didn't do something to his liking. I have watched as they act like pricks.
I know there are plenty of good and great cops. But some people seem delusional in believing all cops are great, or even that most cops are leading some completely grand by the law lives. I think the problem here is some of you think that just by getting pulled over I am going to go into combat mode... once again I love how people assume the worst case scenario whenever someone brings up a point. I never said that, in fact I said If it was something normal, or reasonable of course I would cooperate. There is absolutely ways to stand up to cops who are out of line and not get into trouble. There is absolutely a legal right to forcefully protect yourself if a cop is out of line and progressing farther out of line. Is it something that happens often? No of course not, and it has never happened directly to me.. I have gotten into it verbally with a few cops, but both they and I knew where the bounds were and while we both made it clear in our displeasure with each other, it never crossed bounds. Some of you need to step off your high horses and realise that there are in fact times when cops go rogue, or bad. Cara Knotts family can explain that to you all to well. Internal Affairs departments are there for a reason, and they are never sitting around twiddling their fingers with nothing to do.
There is a reason for that.
No sir, I'm not now, nor ever going to dispute the fact that there're bad apples. I've sai it many times on here. Hell, I've started some discussions on here about it, the recent one being, about a CT officer, who was driving drunk, killed a 15yo kid on a bike, and his daddy, the SGT on at the time, went into full blown operation cover up. Lets see, he did things such as, removing his son, numerous times, from the crime scene, he refused to let the hospital draw blood.
No, there are many bad apples out there. I linked another thread, discussing nepotism in which a recent case of a Meriden, Ct chief, whos son was getting 'special treatment'. IMHO, these people are officers for the wrong reasons, and should not be officers...ever! They use their badge and 'power' for the wrong reasons, and those people are disgusting and a disgrace to the badge. I grew up in a LE household, and was brought up to respect LEOs.
That being said, unfortunately, we're probably never going to solve the problem of *******s such as the ones you and I mentioned. In the end, we will be the ones that'll have to answer for our actions. Will going to file a complaint get me anywhere? Dont know, to date, I've never had to file one. But speaking for myself only, I'd rather attempt that route first, rather than fight it out, physically, in the middle of the road.
