Why the 9-11 conspiracies won't go away...

[hardheadjarhead]

The movie "Loose Change" started out as a fictional screenplay. I'd argue it remained that way...


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1531304-1,00.html


Regards,



Steve

 

[Don Roley]

There's something empowering about just exploring such questions. Loose Change appeals to the viewer's common sense: it tells you to forget the official explanations and the expert testimony, and trust your eyes and your brain instead. It implies that the world can be grasped by laymen without any help or interference from the talking heads. Watching Loose Change, you feel as if you are participating in the great American tradition of self-reliance and nonconformist, antiauthoritarian dissent. You're fighting the power. You're thinking different. (Conspiracists call people who follow the government line "sheeple.")

Explains a lot of all conspiracy theories, including a lot of the ones we see here. I think there is a bit of a superiority complex by most conspiracy theory nuts because they think they can see things that the rest of us are too stupid to see. "But if only you would open up your eyes and not be so closed minded....." goes the popular line.

 

[Kreth]

*Sigh* The two creators of this "documentary" are from Oneonta, so I hear about it all the time. Asking questions like, "OK, if the Pentagon was hit by a cruise missile, then where are the people from the real plane?" usually doesn't go over well...

 

[Andrew Green]

I think it all comes back to something simple. The people in charge all wanted to point fingers, take a strong "stand" for what was right, and use it to further there own interests.

With everyone pointing all over the place and saying "He did it" no one ever gets a real explanation, and wouldn't be able to tell the truth from the 1000's of other stories.

So in the absense of anything that can really be called "The Truth" and a bunch of officials running around covering their asses, pointing fingers and trying to use it for their own gain, it's not that suprising that some people start suspecting a secret scheme from behind the scenes.

 

[Makalakumu]

*Sigh* The two creators of this "documentary" are from Oneonta, so I hear about it all the time. Asking questions like, "OK, if the Pentagon was hit by a cruise missile, then where are the people from the real plane?" usually doesn't go over well...

I think that is a good question.

Anyway, this comes from the original article...

The population of world No. 2 is larger than you might think. A Scripps-Howard poll of 1,010 adults last month found that 36% of Americans consider it "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that government officials either allowed the attacks to be carried out or carried out the attacks themselves. Thirty-six percent adds up to a lot of people. This is not a fringe phenomenon. It is a mainstream political reality.

If this poll is representative of all US citizens, that is alot of people.

 

[crushing]

Speaking of significant percentages of the US population believing things:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/15/ufo.poll/

"Sixty-four percent of the respondents said that aliens have contacted humans, half said they've abducted humans, and 37 percent said they have contacted the U.S. government."

Hmmm. 36% in that poll v. 37% in this one?

 

[Cryozombie]

If this poll is representative of all US citizens, that is alot of people.

I dunno that its true, but it wouldnt supprise me.

 

[Makalakumu]

I dunno that its true, but it wouldnt supprise me.

Me either...

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Speaking of significant percentages of the US population believing things:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/15/ufo.poll/

"Sixty-four percent of the respondents said that aliens have contacted humans, half said they've abducted humans, and 37 percent said they have contacted the U.S. government."

Hmmm. 36% in that poll v. 37% in this one?

Maybe the NEOCONS are in league with the aliens to take over the world. Like in "The X-Files". And the trade centers were actually downed by alien death rays. Yeah.

 

[Makalakumu]

Maybe the NEOCONS are in league with the aliens to take over the world. Like in "The X-Files". And the trade centers were actually downed by alien death rays. Yeah.

Or maybe it was 19 Arab hijackers with some flight training and box cutters and hell of alot of "hate for our freedom."

...and a bit of the devil's luck.

Especially considering the targets they attacked and the trillions of dollars we've spent to defend those targets.

 

[tradrockrat]

Well to paraphrase my friend Duck (MDW Special Rescue Engineering Co) -

"I don't know, maybe it was a cruise missle, but if it was it was well hidden under the plane parts and burned bodies I had to get around when I was busy putting out fires and reinforcing the burned out walls."


Just ask someone who was there.

 

[Brother John]

I think it all comes back to something simple. The people in charge all wanted to point fingers, take a strong "stand" for what was right, and use it to further there own interests.

With everyone pointing all over the place and saying "He did it" no one ever gets a real explanation, and wouldn't be able to tell the truth from the 1000's of other stories.

So in the absense of anything that can really be called "The Truth" and a bunch of officials running around covering their asses, pointing fingers and trying to use it for their own gain, it's not that suprising that some people start suspecting a secret scheme from behind the scenes.

yeah,
THat OR the truth is so simple and plain that they don't want to accept it.

Forget the politicians: their very job description REQUIRES that they put spin to Everything. (Regardless of party affiliation)

The simplest facts point out the obvious truth. But few want to accept it.
"NO....there's something MORE to this."


no...there isn't.


Your Brother
John

 

[hongkongfooey]

These guys need to lay off the drugs. What makes them think they are qualified to offer proof of a conspiracy at the Pentagon?

 

[jazkiljok]

i was listening to a pacifica radio station broadcast the loose change documentary, or something like it, they played over and over a live recording of the towers coming down where they heard this series of pops in the background as a reporter described the horror of the moment. the hosts of the show told its audience that these were "OBVIOUSLY" the sounds of specially placed detonators. over and over they played the pops, over and over they reinforced their beleif that some secret gov't special ops team had purposely brought the buildings down.

in some way this seemed to me like the inverse, if not somewhat perverse, version of generals and state dept heads showing up on TV and pointing to some nondescript blots on satellite photos and telling us how one is a secret missle launcher, the other a moving poison chemical lab. their pointers constantly circling the blots as they repeated over and over what we were suppose to "obviously" see.

when authority makes up **** to justify whatever agenda their pitching at the time, eventually anti-authority pushes back with it's own b.s.

we live in the age of manipulation and anyone can play.

 

[Don Roley]

Or maybe it was 19 Arab hijackers with some flight training and box cutters and hell of alot of "hate for our freedom."

...and a bit of the devil's luck.

Especially considering the targets they attacked and the trillions of dollars we've spent to defend those targets.

Well, the old saying is that people like that only have to get lucky once.

What I want to know is how the people that insulted everyone in America by saying that their goverment was responsible for 9-11 plan on saying they were sorry considering that Al-Queda has released videos of the people that flew those planes to their deaths.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_...n/20060907133309990004?ncid=NWS00010000000001

There are a lot of people that used to make a big case of talking about how they did the research and how everyone else was a big idiot for not accepting their version of events about 9-11 who have not made even the slightest effort to apologize for their insults now that Al-Queada has used images of the hijackers for months in their propaganda.

 

[Marginal]

Maybe the NEOCONS are in league with the aliens to take over the world.

http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/features/aliens/52520

You are well read.

 

[Makalakumu]

Well, the old saying is that people like that only have to get lucky once.

Yup. Real lucky.

What I want to know is how the people that insulted everyone in America by saying that their goverment was responsible for 9-11 plan on saying they were sorry considering that Al-Queda has released videos of the people that flew those planes to their deaths.

Is this how you see people who question the official story? Do you really feel that it is an insult to America? If so, do you think that there are many others who feel the way you do?

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_...n/20060907133309990004?ncid=NWS00010000000001

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_...n/20060907133309990004?ncid=NWS00010000000001http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_...n/20060907133309990004?ncid=NWS00010000000001

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_...n/20060907133309990004?ncid=NWS00010000000001

And, not to be smarmy or anything like that, but Don, do you know for sure where Al-jazeera got these tapes? It certainly seems like a politically convenient time for their airing...

There are a lot of people that used to make a big case of talking about how they did the research and how everyone else was a big idiot for not accepting their version of events about 9-11 who have not made even the slightest effort to apologize for their insults now that Al-Queada has used images of the hijackers for months in their propaganda.

This goes both ways. If someone disrespects someones ideas and efforts, why should they respect that person in return?

 

[Makalakumu]

Oh, by the way, here is another MSM article on this subject...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14723997/

To make sense of the truth movement's anger, you need to hit the rewind button to early 2001, with the hindsight of today. There was, as the 9/11 Commission hearings made clear, a bad moon rising. Warnings kept coming of a "high probability" of a "spectacular" terrorist attack. A national security adviser warned Condoleezza Rice there were terrorist cells, probably al-Qaeda guys, in the country. CIA chief George Tenet said the "system was blinking red."

A presidential bulletin on Aug. 6 had a catchy title: "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." Bush did not discuss it again with Tenet before Sept. 11.
So give the truth movement, many of whom are based in New York City, their props. They may be paranoid, but something nasty came our way. They pore over the paper trail with a Sherlock Holmesian intensity, alert to intriguing discrepancy.

Such as:

Former transporation secretary Norman Mineta told the commission he arrived in the presidential operations center -- under the White House -- at 9:20 a.m. on Sept. 11 and found Vice President Cheney. When an aide asked Cheney about the hijacked plane fast approaching the Pentagon, Mineta says the vice president snapped that the "orders still stand." Mineta assumed the orders were to shoot the plane down. Conspiracy theorists interpret this to mean: Don't shoot it down.

Cheney later said he was not in the operations center until after the plane hit. The commission never mentioned Mineta's contradictory version.

In September 2001, NORAD generals said they learned of the hijackings in time to scramble fighter jets. But the government recently released tapes claiming to show the FAA did not tell the military about the hijackings until three of the four planes had crashed.

That would mean the FAA repeatedly lied. It would also mean, as Griffin points out, that the entire military chain of command stayed quiet about huge inaccuracies for four years "even though . . . the true story would put the military in a better light."

More mysteries pile up. The 9/11 Commission says Flight 77 hit the Pentagon at 9:37. But Honegger says clocks stopped at the Pentagon at 9:32. Then there's the collapse of the twin towers, which Jones, the physics professor, timed at just short of free fall. Griffin cites firefighters, including a captain, who said in hearings and on tapes from that day that they saw flashes and heard the sound of explosions before the collapse.

"It's like the Nazi-facilitated Reichstag fire," Honegger says from her home in California. "They guided and secretly protected it to justify their global agenda."

Let's put aside the could-anyone-do-something-that-spectacularly-twisted? question and touch on practicalities. Isn't the problem with big ugly conspiracies -- from the Gulf of Tonkin to My Lai to the 1961 Pentagon plan to provoke a war by attacking Americans and blaming it on Castro -- that they are too big and ugly to keep secret?

Griffin shrugs. History is littered with government black-bag jobs. "How do you know they can't keep big secrets? Can you be sure you know what you don't know?"

I found this to be an interesting contrast from the first article...

 

[Makalakumu]

Also, for anyone who is intersted, here is more info on that Scripps poll cited above...

Third of Americans suspect 9-11 government conspiracy

Considering the implications of something that is so fresh, so painful, and something everyone in America saw, this is alot of people. And when you consider the fact that if all of this was true, the implications for our society are so utterly dark, it is even more astounding.

With that in mind, an interesting question crops up. What happens if the numbers of people who believe this stuff grows? What if in a few months we are looking at 50%? What if in six months we are looking at 66%?

That, IMHO, isn't out of the question considering how angry people are over the War and over the Bush administration in general.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

The usual suspects.